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Subject |
emerald
Registered
User
(9/18/00 4:31:47 am)
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dealing
with negative comments and criticism.
Hi,
For those people here for
have or are presently studying the cello or any other instruments
full time, I'm sure some of you have got 'rough days' or 'bad days'
where you get negative comments from your prof.s, or it's just such
a bad day and you have one of these 'bad lessons', you come out of
your lesson feeling REALLY down and lousy, and you wonder whether
you're any good at the instrument you're playing at all. And you
don't understand, just not too long ago your hopes were high and you
thought you could conquer anything..and when you're out of the
lesson you feel like your teacher has swallowed you whole.
How
do you cope with such a situation , negative comments, nitpicking,
etc, from your teachers and how do you pick yourself up after
that?
I hope I can get some insight!
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Bob
Registered User
(9/18/00 6:37:59 am)
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Re:
dealing with negative comments and criticism.
This is not perhaps the answer you
were looking for, but speaking as a former conservatory professor, I
would want to know if & when a student of mine ever left a
lesson feeling like that. Because I would never, ever intend to
invoke such feelings. To be sure, I sometimes had to point out that
there had been insufficient practice since the last lesson (I would
do this only if it was patently obvious, not simply if a student
screwed up a hard passage), but my goal at all times was to
encourage as well as teach. I had a few colleagues who seemed to
enjoy tearing down students, but they were rare. Most teachers, when
faced with a lesson description like you just posted, would say
"that's not what I meant to do at all!" and would wish to speak with
you to clear the air. I can't speak for yours, obviously.
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emerald
Registered
User
(9/18/00 7:57:17 am)
|
Re:
dealing with negative comments and criticism.
Well, basically this was due to
insufficient practice, but when I play other works well, and I know
i did, i put my heart and soul into it and all he just brushes it
off with a mumble like that was good and then goes on to the next
piece once he finds a flaw in a difficult pssage he starts tearing
me down to pieces tells me what failure feels like tells me i wont
be able to get into any school outside my country etc etc etc. I've
always been one of the stronger students in the faculty but I'm so
sick of him all he does is put down put down put down. I've
developed a protective shell around myself already. When he tells me
I'm going to fail and I just look at him straight and say 'ok, if
thats what you say'. because he's said that to me so many times b4
exams and I've done well despite his negativity! And when I play the
same piece for other lecturers , they do say positive things about
other musical aspects rather than all negative, like my musicality
or just something else!
Drives me crazy. But I'm going strong
anyway. I'm determined prove this guy otherwise. (and the worst
thing is, i can't change teachers.)
By the way,Bob, it would be
great to have a professor like you.
It's just so important to
encourage your students rather than tear them down.
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jekerry
Registered User
(9/18/00 8:06:26 am)
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Re:
dealing with negative comments and criticism.
I'm sorry that is happening. I had a
teacher like that when I was in graduate school in English. He would
tear me down all the time, turn red in the face, yell. I hated
seeing him at all. Then one day he loved some of my work and gushed
about and told me it was wonderful. I started crying and told him
off. I thought it was a trick and he felt terrible because he
realized that he had alienated me so much I couldn't even hear
anything positive from him any more. He couldn't teach me because I
tuned at the negative and wouldn't believe the positive. A teacher
like that isn't a teacher, just a critic. I hope you can find
someone else to help you make your
way!
Best,
Jane
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
(9/18/00 9:15:42 am)
 |
Re:
dealing with negative comments and criticism.
Though it's very important to hold
students to the highest standards and be clear about that they are,
I don't see the necessity for communicating in such a manner as to
be destructive to the morale of the student. Actually, it's
fool-hearted on the part of any teacher because it doesn't really
help the student to improve when you say things like "you are going
to fail" and nothing else afterwards. I would probably have said "In
order to do well on your exams (or even pass), you are going to have
to get it up to a much higher level....and here is what we need to
do..."
It's fool-hearted because if the student doesn't do
well because of negative, destructive pressure, ultimately it
doesn't make the teacher look good either.
Is your teacher
the ONLY cello teacher in your school? While at Manhattan School of
Music, in my freshman year, I studied for 1/2 a semester with a
pretty well known cellist who I guess was having some personal
problems. In my lessons he payed no attention and stared out the
window while I played. Then he'd take my cello and say, play it like
this...and it was horrible. I'd choose never play the way he played
(sloppy and with an "I don't give a **** attitude). I quickly
switched teachers (after he started missing lessons and not calling
me to tell me leaving me at his studio door waiting.) After the
switch, life got much better. If you can switch teachers, I'd
explore the possibilities. You are paying good money to be
instructed, not beaten down or neglected. You teacher has a
responsibility to look out for your msucial well-being. Of course,
you have a responsibility to practice and come prepared to lessons,
but that doesn't exscuse such poor behaviour on the teacher's part.
I've had many teaher's who held me to a very high standard and had
no problem letting me know if something I played really sucked. But
they never resorted to destructive talk with any of their students
and they all turned out just as well (if not better) as students of
emotionaly abusive teachers.
Paul Tseng, Cello Chat Administrator
Today's Quote
My Website
MP3!
The San Diego Cello Society
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SlavaBilly
Registered User
(9/18/00 9:46:51 am)
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Abusive
teachers?
I guess one example might be Mister
Harvey Shapiro...
"If you were a painter, your paintings would
look like the f$#@ing blank wall!"
That seems pretty abusive
to me...
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Sopher
Registered User
(9/18/00 10:51:03 am)
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RE:
Negative teacher.
I guess the question which I am
wondering is if you sincerely want to know techniques we use to
overcome this negative feeling or if you just want to vent about
your teacher. I think we can support you in either but it makes a
difference which one you want ("learn to see his perspective" vs
"ignore the ignoramous" for example). It sounds like the latter to
me!
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Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(9/18/00 2:13:10 pm)
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Re:
dealing with negative comments and criticism.
If your teacher really is such a
spiteful person, someone needs to confront him. Do other people in
your studio have the same feelings about your teacher? A teacher's
job is to encourage their students to succeed and work to the best
of their abilities. Their job is NOT to make students feel like
crap. First though, definitely mention your feelings to your
teacher, because most likely, they are not intentionally putting you
down.
-Laura
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BA
Registered User
(9/19/00 2:31:24 am)
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Shapiro
bits
That's nothing. I went to Victoria
to study with Shapiro when I was 15. I watched him tell a girl (his
student from Juilliard) "You're fat and you're ugly and that's the
way you play. You should go see a psychiatrist." The girl obligingly
came back to the next lesson and said "I followed your suggestion- I
went to a psychiatrist" to which he immediately quipped "Get your
money back- it didn't do any good"
As horrible as that sounds
and as overwhelming as it was for me at that age, he was very kind
when I knew him in later life at Juilliard (though I did not study
with him). He is an excellent musician and those who were able to
ignore his verbal harrangues gained a great deal from him. (Also I
got a big collection of good stories in 1 summer!)There is a certain
element of this in the old world style- don't forget Soyer's story
of Feuermann rolling on the floor laughing at him!
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zambocello
Registered User
(9/19/00 2:46:29 am)
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teachers
Ouch! Tough situation.
My
teacher beat up on me a lot; sometimes for weeks on end. I was
confident that it wasn't personal, though, and benefitted from his
toughness. Do you feel it is personal or more than an honest effort
to push your standards?
Even though it is an emotionally
charged matter for you, go slowly! Deal with the situation
incrementally. Assess your own fellings first. Then communicate (if
you think prudent) to the teacher your concerns and feelings. If no
benefit is foreseeable you have to consider action.
Do try
to understand your teacher. He may be pushing you, without realizing
he is stifling your joy. Tough teachers are not necesarily bad. (Any
Starker students want to share horror stories? That could be a
thread that would outdistance our political threads!)
It's
not possible to change teachers, eh? It would be too bad to simply
tough it out with an antagonistic teacher. Change of school
possible?
Persevere!
Zambo
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SlavaBilly
Registered User
(9/19/00 9:57:52 am)
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Shapiro
No matter how good a cellist or
teacher he is, I don't think I could put up with that kind of abuse,
and I don't think anyone should have to. Just because he's about 150
years old and cranky as all hell doesn't give him the license to
behave so badly. My teacher studied with him at Juilliard and did
quite well, probably because he has a tougher skin than I do. I
would never go that route. My sanity is still more important than my
technique. And if I had been that girl whom he told was fat and
ugly, I would probably have told him to f%#$ off and never spoken to
him again.
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sarah
schenkman
Registered User
(9/19/00 9:39:21 pm)
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negative comments
I had to deal with a different
kind of negative comments - studied with Claus Adam who spent much
of my lesson time badmouthing his colleagues - once told me about
visiting a violin shop where a well-known cellist was trying out a
cello and playing through lots of pieces very badly, in his opinion,
so when the shop owner asked him if he would play the cello for her
so that she could hear what it sounded like he " played exactly what
she had been playing, only I played with good taste." He also always
made disparaging remarks about Rose - would roll his eyes whenever I
brought an International Edition to a lesson and complain about the
bowing and fingerings in it.
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OyOy
Registered User
(9/20/00 8:36:36 am)
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The
feeling was mutual
Since they're both gone, and both
are firmly established in the instrument's pantheon, the Lord will
forgive me if I quote Rose on Adam: "He's a horse's ass and he never
COULD play the cello." It's reassuring, somehow, to know that the
great artists could be as petty as we here on CC!!!
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emerald
Registered
User
(9/20/00 9:38:44 am)
|
great
musicians or not..
we shouldn't pay these people to
insult us, I believe there's such a thing as CONSTRUCTIVE criticism.
I knew my studies in music would never be 100% smooth sailing (whose
was? raise your hand) but then again..sometimes if you stretch me to
the limit..I'd just snap..I know some comments may not be
personal..but whatever it is.. i am a sensitive person and these
words get into my ears heart and mind..it still affects me. So
there.
Thanks for all your comments so far.
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Walter
Lenel
Registered
User
(9/21/00 5:55:49 am)
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Claus
Adam
I also studied with Claus Adam, but
my experience was different. Maybe he was mellower when I was with
him, I don't know. He did sometimes make negative comments about
others, but I don't remember it being a dominant habit, or taking up
a lot of lesson time. In general, he was very constructive and
helpful to me, and I greatly appreciate all that I got from
him.
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