| Author |
Subject |
Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(10/4/00 8:51:30 am)
Reply |
Teaching beginners
In a few weeks, I'm probably going
to be taking on a few beginners... as in never having touched a
cello before. I have a basic idea of what I want to do, starting
with how to hold the cello & bow, and how to play open strings.
What I'm not quite sure of is how fast to introduce new topics.
Obviously this will depend somewhat on the students, but do I wait
until they have completely and totally mastered one concept (playing
open strings) until I introduce a new concept (playing first
finger?)? I don't remember very much from my early cello lessons so
I don't have all that much to go on. And one other question: What do
you think of introducing 4th position first and then 1st position?
I've heard a lot of things about how 4th position is more natural
and easier to find than 1st, mainly because of finger spacing.
Ideas?
I know I should probably just talk to Ms. White, but
I'm sure the rest of you have ideas, too!
-Laura
|
PatWhite
Registered User
(10/4/00 9:15:57 am)
Reply |
Actually, Laura...
Teaching beginners is NOT my forte!
I've done it perhaps once or twice at most, and have never felt
comfortable with the real young-uns or beginners. Sorry to
disappoint...! And good luck to you.
Patricia White
|
Tim
Janof
Registered
User
(10/4/00 9:28:36 am)
Reply |
Re:
Teaching beginners
Buy a copy of "Playing the String
Game," by Phyllis Young. She'll give you loads of ideas on how to
teach in a fun, imaginative way, which is particularly important
when teaching kids.
|
MsCheryl
Registered
User
(10/4/00 1:12:26 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Teaching beginners
Laura,
Having taught a wide range
of students, I would say that the most important thing with
beginners is to get it right. I'm sure Pat will agree with me that
the toughest thing in getting students later down the road is
correcting bad habits (and sometimes they NEVER get corrected!) I
would work on one thing until they pretty much are comfortable with
it - not perfect, but comfortable - and then make sure to run weekly
checks on those things. If something gets out of control take some
time out and work on that problem. There are all sorts of
imaginative ways of working things. Open strings can be played
"square" or in rhythms - you can add melody lines to make them
interesting at the lessons. I usually work to the student, so have
no fixed "modus operandi". Different kids** have different ways of
learning - some are visual, some aural, some tactile, so this is
where you get to be creative. Most importantly - keep your sense of
humor!!!! It can be tough sometimes. If you want, feel free to
e-mail me. I would be happy to help in any way. 
Just
a note on the 4th position thing - although it's easy to "find"
fourth position, it's hard for students to "stay" there - the
shoulder of the cello pushes the hand back - and then there's the
problem of leaning on the shoulder with the arm/hand. I'd be
interested as well, if you use this method, to know how it goes.
Cheryl
** and adults
Edited by: MsCheryl
at: 10/4/00 1:12:26 pm
|
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
(10/4/00 12:45:59 pm)
Reply
 |
4th
position 1st
I've heard that this was a good
teaching practice too as it helps keep the student's shoulders
relaxed and it's easier to maintain good positioning of the left
arm.
I've not tried this teaching method myself yet. The only
thing I question about it is, will a beginner get confused starting
in a position other than 1st?
Laura, if you decide to use
this method, will you email me and tell me of your findings and
results? Hopefully your student won't feel like a lab mouse.
Paul Tseng, Cello Chat Administrator
Today's Quote
My Website
MP3!
The San Diego Cello Society
|
Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(10/4/00 12:51:54 pm)
Reply |
Re: 4th
position 1st
Actually, they are adult students.
If I consider teaching them 4th position first, I'll definitely fill
them in on what I know about the usual method of 1st position first
and why exactly I want to try something different. If they don't
want to be lab mice, that's fine with me! I'll let ya know what
happens.
-Laura
|
Tracie
Price 
Registered
User
(10/4/00 3:18:59 pm)
Reply |
Some
thoughts
I agree with teaching 4th position
first-- when you start teaching positions. (so many method books put
2nd position first) However, I think you could potentially run into
some problems teaching it before 1st position.
For one,
you're really limiting your repetoire. There are, of course, books
with 4th position pieces in them, but you can't reall even have them
play scales w/o using a harmonic or shifting.
Also, I think
that having the shoulder of the cello there so close.. and so
comfy... students might tend to rest their arm on the shoulder and
get into some rather poor playing position, rather than learning
right up front how their left arm should be.
It is harder
for many students to play on the lower strings in 4th position due
to the extra reach required, and also the contact point of the bow
is going to move closer to the bridge to get the best sound than it
will be with simple open strings.
I've taught many adult
beginners and haven't had a problem with them learning 1st position.
In order to get their hand in the correct place, you can teach them
to tune the 4th finger-open string octave. It's true that 1st finger
is difficult to locate (what was it Casals said about every day
having to find the E?) But you can teach them to set their whole
hand in the correct place using 4th finger, then keeping it there by
making sure their thumb is guiding them (not gripping!).
As
far as how quickly to progress... I agree that it's extremely
important to give beginners a good solid start, however also keep in
mind that they (especially adults) can get bored just playing open
strings. If boredom sets in they are more likely to experiment on
their own which can create even more problems. I like to give them
things to think about with both hands- and show them how to break
tricky spots down into their elements to practice a bowing or a slur
pattern, and a finger pattern and put them together. I'm not saying
you should push them too quickly, just watch out for boredom, and
ask the student if you are assigning enough to keep them busy, or
too much. Even when just working on the very basics try to give them
some variety.
-Tracie
|
Lucy
Clifford
Registered User
(10/4/00 5:29:17 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Teaching beginners
Hi! I am a new person on this board,
so I don't want to run roughshod over established members (and from
reading the archives I have worked out who those venerable citizens
are. 2 are in South America, correct?)
So, teaching
beginners? It is scary at first, whatever age they are. Each age
seems to have traps and advantages. The thing is to supremely
confident in what you are doing. Adults especially are notorious for
questioning EVERYTHING and being obstreperous.
I have
formulated a 'technique' - if you want it, please send $1 000 000 to
this address________________________
OK
1) (This is a Suzuki thing, but applicable in any
case).
*Teach Book 10 Technique in Book 1*.
ie from the first
time they hold the bow, put it on the string, use the left hand, it
is a preperation for the Boccherini Concerto! I realise that this
concerto maybe not your students' goal, and it is ocassionally hard
to explain this concept to adults, who are filled with self doubt,
but try all the same.
2) Make sure that the beginning steps
are set in concrete before you move on. Almost every student wants
to rush on, often with only a superficial grasp of the matter in
hand (not a pun). This merely slows later progress, leads to
tension. . . .spending longer on the fundamentals makes for smoother
progress.
3) The first note! G on the D-string, 4th finger in
first position. This note has a wonderful ring, the student quickly
grasps the glowing sound.
Introduce it with pizzicato first,
then short bows. The sound of a short staccato bow stroke is more
pleasing and easier to control than a long legato
stroke.
##Be sure that the left hand is a relaxed, heavy
Blob##
4) Bowing! Four magic words. Place! Prepare! Bow!
Stop!
Achieve maximum tone. Hopefully your students will have a
good sense of humour, and will not object to you marking the place
on the bow where they should play. This place is the balance point
of the bow
5) Descending D major scale, 1 octave from D on
A-string to open D. Use short bows and vary the bowing patterns -
long short and short vice versa etc. . .
Above all, don't
move on until they are capable. This sounds very boring perhaps for
an adult, but they will feel that they have accomplished more by
learning 1 step at a time thoroughly before moving on.
I
don't like starting in fourth position, beccuase the left hand is
inclined to rest on the cello.
And here is a shameless plug.
I was nervous about teaching until I started taking Suzuki teacher
Training. I know that there is a lot of stigma against this, but
this often stems from ignorance (that is a strong word! How about
'fear of the unknown'?) The initial course lays out all the steps
for beginners and it is thorough and good value. Even if you decide
that you're never going to teach this way that's fine, but it will
give you a new perspective. I see that you are a college student -
there is never a better time to learn something new than at that
stage of your musical developement. To me, music is about keeping an
open mind.
lucy
clifford
|
sarah
schenkman
Registered User
(10/4/00 5:51:03 pm)
Reply |
1st
position first
I teach beginner college students in
an art school - they take strings as an elective for one quarter and
during that time they go from not knowing what a cello is to playing
a group recital at the end. I think you need to teach lst position
first - they can learn to play simple pieces very early from any
method book you're using and then have a sense of accomplishment and
play together - Samuel Applebaum's "Beautiful Music for Two String
Instruments" (Vol. 1) is great for beginners - either you get two of
them to play together or you play one of the lines. They get a
feeling for playing ensemble early.
|
Lisa
Shipman
Registered
User
(10/4/00 7:13:06 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Teaching beginners
Laura,
I've only played cello for
about a year. I started last
October at the age of 34. My teacher
has used the Grant
method for me, along with some of the
Schroeder books and
some pieces to work on.
I started my
first lesson learning of course how to hold
the cello and bow
(which was very unnatural feeling for
months). She then got me
bowing open strings and then
went over all the notes on the A and
D string in first
position. Of course, I have played piano since
I was 8
and flute since I was 10 so she didn't have to teach
me
music, just the instrument. She is 77 this year and started
playing when she was 8. She's a wonderful teacher with tons of
patience and a sense of humor that I think is a definite need for
teaching!
Everyone is different and I can't say that adults will
always learn faster than kids, or slower. I have both young and
adult students on piano and the so called adult courses go way too
fast for most of them. They feel overwelmed and get frustrated. I
have started many of them in the so called kids books that go
slower. You will have
to feel each student out and see if they
are bored and need to be pushed harder or if they are frustrated and
need to take a step back. I can freely say that the cello is the
hardest instrument I've ever played.
As for positions I can only
say that I learned first position then 2nd, 3rd, and so on. I can
see where 4th may be easier but at the same time I don't think it
would have made shifting positions any easier when the others were
introduced. It is hard to hit that note perfectly in tune when
shifting, for me anyway. I'm getting it dead on more and more but
still tend to drift sharp as I'm playing. My teacher is a stickler
for that perfect pitch and I love her for it. She can be tough but I
feel I have a really solid foundation.
Now if I can only go from
Pizzicato to bowing quicker!
|
Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(10/4/00 7:33:47 pm)
Reply |
Re:
early days
Just remembered my, ahem, 'darkest
day' in my early cello lessons. After not having practiced almost
all week, and having "learn the notes on the C and G strings" on my
to-do list, I showed up at my lesson and had absolutely no clue
where the notes on the page were on the cello. I can almost see the
music (and my teacher's disapproving face) in my head.
Gee...
yet another stress attack coming on.
Aaargh!
-Laura
|
Bob
Blais
Registered
User
(10/5/00 5:45:33 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Teaching beginners
I have a series of exercises that I
teach beginners at their first lesson.
Bow
exercises:
I start students at the balance point. It is much
easier, and you can move them toward the frog as they get more
comfy.
1)windshield wipers- hair up, hair down; keep thumb
bent, don't move elbow.
2)elevators- point bow tip at ceiling,
bring it all the way up,. then down to the floor; Let the elbow lead
the way down, and elbow drags behind on the way up.
3)stirring
soup-bow pointed up, move bow in circles, far away from you and
almost touching the nose.
4)creepy crawlies-start at frog, crawl
up and down the bow with fingers. No slipping allowed!
Cello
exercises
I start students with the cstring peg behind their
ear.
1)knock on cello with your fists, knuckles down. Up and
down the fingerboard top the bridge, and behind the head on the
scroll
2)zippers -four right fingers between the c and g strings,
four left fingers between a + d. Slide up an ddown the fingerboard.
Be sure that the left hand goes all the way to the end of the
fingerbvooard.
3)ski jumps- right thumb on outside of c string,
slide down and pizz at the end.
I think these are all stolen
from Margaret Rowell. They seem to set up a student well.
May
the force be with you,
Bob
|
Corrina
Connor
Registered
User
(10/6/00 12:55:00 am)
Reply |
Margaret Rowell
I have just been learning about some
of Margaret Rowell's techniques. These come into the classifications
of Cellorobics, or so I learnt from my teacher trainer.
Lucy,
where are you located?
~Corrina~
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