| Author |
Subject |
Ellen
G 
Registered User
(10/11/00 8:53:20 am)
Reply |
Community Orchestra people, a question
I went to rehearsal last night and
each time I've gone, there's been a different mix of people so
nobody really knows who sits where except for the college students,
who always sit first. It IS their orchestra.
Anyway, last
week the conductor read off seats for us, but only two of the cello
section showed up. So inside chairs for stands 1 and 2 were
occupied, period. Last night I showed up and there were new folks
there. Out of 6 chairs designated for celli, the college student
took Chair 1, of course, and the women who got there ahead of me had
taken chairs 2, 4 and 6. Interesting. I would have headed for 4 (my
assigned chair) which was taken. It never occurred to me to head for
an outside chair. And apparently 4 out of 4 women feel this way in
our orchestra. I was curious if any of you "migrate" to a particular
spot in the section. Incidentally, I didn't know my stand partner at
all, ended up sitting outside where I happily didn't have to turn
pages since the conductor kept wanting to start about 4 measures
before a page turn... and for the first time didn't feel like "Uh
oh, everybody is better than I am." A lot of this IS a mental game.
I had a ball, and the group is a bit friendlier this year I think.
One of my quartet partners has decided to play so it's extra nice to
have a special friend in the group.
Also, the conductor
scored brownie points over a bowing issue. Parts were marked sort of
goofy and he said, "You know your instruments better than anyone. Do
what works for YOU and if there's a problem, I'll let you know." Or
something to that effect. I thought that was nice.
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Dorie
Straus 
Registered User
(10/11/00 9:02:23 am)
Reply |
Re:
Community Orchestra people, a question
The community orchestra I'm in seems
to seat according to senority (except the principal) - at 46 years
old, I sit in the last chair. Does that tell you something? These
folks are really possessive about their chairs. I don't know what
would happen if some really good, younger cellist showed up. It
would be truly scandalous.
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MaryK
Registered
User
(10/11/00 11:10:48 am)
Reply
 |
Re:
Community Orchestra people, a question
My orchestra too apparently seats by
seniority w/in the organization, except for one guy who insists on
bringing up the rear. I thought it wouldn't matter, but now it's
driving me nuts to be sitting 6th when 2d is where I belong. Uh-oh,
my ego is showing!! :) Last year's orch mixed up seating every
concert, which was fun 'coz we got to play w/different stand
partners and got to know fellow cellists better. When seating is up
for grabs, I usually sit 3d, liking not to have to turn pages and
not having to take the heat of the first stand.
MaryK
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Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
(10/11/00 11:16:17 am)
Reply |
Re:
Community Orchestra people, a question
The community orchestra I am in
auditions applicants and a number of people who come each year don't
seem to show up in the ensemble after their auditions (during the
break of their first rehearsal session), I find this sad, but it's
the only way we could give the concerts we do - and it gives these
unfortunate people aspirations, and relieves them of torture.
However, once seats are assigned, the chosen people seem to have
tenure and it is awkward for the conductor to move people about
--but it is done from time to time. Fortunately we also have a
professional string coach who is not shy about assigning seating and
changing it. (Until this year we had a separate violin/viola coach
and a cello coach - both superb (mostly) retired professionals each
with (probably) 80 years playing experience.)
I am of the
opinion, reinforced by 50 years experience in community orchestras
that the musical interests of the players and of the music are best
served if the best players are scattered throughout the sections
rather than concentrated toward the front. If half the players are
"real" good, put them in the outside seats. If 1/4 are good -spot
them into every fourth seat, etc. If only 2 are good, put one at the
front and the other about 1/2-way back. If only one is good, she
becomes the principal.
A good player is always a positive
influence on a poorer player, and although the poorer player may be
distracting to the better one, if he is attentive he will improve
and do just fine by concert time --and then he can always airbow as
a last resort.
We always seem to have a lot of shuffling in
the cello section as people show up or don't - and it seems as
though it can take a number of rehearsals before they all figure out
where the are really sitting (once all are there), but since all are
"mature" people, that doesn't seem to be a biggie--as long as the
"other guy" has to do the solos (and he is usually late too). I
don't know why the cellists are more tardy and absent than the other
musicians. Do you?
Andy
Edited by: Andrew
Victor at: 10/11/00 11:16:17 am
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ruthann
Registered User
(10/11/00 12:31:38 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Community Orchestra people, a question
Now here's another subject on which
I have a lot to say!
Some years back we had a wonderful
conductor who had each of us audition - just so he could gauge the
level of the group and plan his music accordingly. He chose the
principles and they were supposed to do the rest. Now when you have
a good group of people who all respect one another, or a principle
who can be firm, this works out fine. Our good conductor has since
left us and the current guy doesn't want to deal with "petty
personnel issues." In one of the sections, the old-timers are very
territorial about their spot. Newcomers are treated with suspicion -
definately not made welcome. And in the smaller sections (winds and
brass) where there are just not enough parts to go around, there
seems to be a great deal of deviousness involved in snatching up the
first part, either for oneself or one's student. Even as we speak,
there are about a half dozen people just furious with either their
collegues or the conductor over these seating issues. And this is
what we do in our spare time for fun?
As for me, I find the
best seat in the cello section for being able to see the conductor
is 2nd, followed by 4th. Beyond that it's too easy to ignore him. In
our festival orchestra I always play in an outside seat. At the
first sectional, the section leader (a paid coach) splits us into
two groups, based on who can best play the upper line in divisi
sections. Except for the principle, we rotate for each rehersal and
concert, so we all get a chance to play next to different people. I
like being one of the chosen "outies" and not having to turn pages,
but it's harder to watch the conductor from an outside seat.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com
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JanJan
Registered
User
(10/11/00 1:00:16 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Dumb question time
I've only played in one orchestra.
(Well, if that's what you want to call it...we were awful!) When I
played viola, since only 2 of us showed up most of the time, seating
wasn't much of an issue. When I moved to the cello section - gee,
there were about 8 of us - I gladly took and clung to my seat in the
back row. We never worried much about who sat where, it was just
understood that the stronger players sat towards the front.
Anyway, we never talked about what numbered seat we sat in.
Am I correct in assuming that the numbers, counting from the
conductor back, go
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
ad nauseum? So,
the outside players are odd (numbered, not peculiar), and the inside
seats are even?
I just want to be sure I understand this.
Don't want to look any stupider than is absolutely necessary, in
case I ever join another orchestra someday! Know what I
mean?
Janet
http://www.nese.net
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ruthann
Registered User
(10/11/00 1:04:06 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Dumb question time
You are absolutely correct.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com
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Beaker1
Registered User
(10/11/00 1:19:11 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Community Orchestra people, a question
The first community/college
orchestra I played with sat according to senority. I was the only
cellist who actually studied at the college (not music though) and I
sat towards the back next to a lady who had hearing aids and never
heard how bad I was back then, hehehe! The second one seemed to sit
by senority and skill. Now I play with a pops orchestra that was
just started up and I tend to head for the back. I don't like being
in the last row but the second or third row is best. Our first
reading rehearsal this month only had 3 celli so I gladly sat behind
the other two. We talked about seating arrangements and the
possibilty of rotating for each concert. They can rotate around me
for all I care! I rather not sit in the front. I feel safe in the
middle and thats were I will stay!! You know I have that 2nd cello
syndrome and always opt for the 2nd part also. I think it's all
about safety and comfort for me in orchestra.
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Ellen
G
Registered User
(10/11/00 1:48:33 pm)
Reply |
Does
this work for even wrong seatings?
Quick question. I know this is right
for Right Seating, with celli to the right of the conductor on the
outside. But I'm trying to remember what Wrong Seating No. 1 and
Wrong Seating No. 2 are. I suppose either way you're still on the
right side of the stage and therefore this seating holds. I never
thought about it until I had to do seating arrangements for the
String Ensemble and realized that all the violin inside and outsides
were backwards. Boy, am I cellocentric, or what? Seems odd for an
inside sitter to have to reach across for a page turn....
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Bobbie
Registered
User
(10/11/00 2:45:28 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Community Orchestra people, a question
Interesting question. In our
orchestra the violins and winds all audition and are seated by the
conductor or the concertmaster. The cello section runs a little
differently. The uncontested best player sits first, which is good,
except that he is also the most likely to miss a rehearsal since he
plays in a semipro orchestra and also travels on business. Usually
the best student sits second, followed by any other students as
assigned by the conductor, then the non-students, which usually puts
me in back. I'd prefer the second stand but he likes the students
there I think because they tend to practice only if he can see them
when they are playing. Like Ruthann, I can see the conductor better
from the inside stand but usually play 4 or 5 depending on the
number of students. We sort of self-assign after the kids the
conductor seats, and most adults tend to gravitate to the inside,
but I can see better out of my right eye.
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Dorie
Straus
Registered User
(10/11/00 6:41:53 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Community Orchestra people, a question
If I had to audition for mine, I'd
be in the audience.
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Joe
S
Registered
User
(10/11/00 11:15:35 pm)
Reply |
Thanks
JanJan,
Sometimes you don't know what you
don't untill somebody tells you something you don't know. You know
what I mean?
|
JanJan
Registered
User
(10/12/00 7:01:48 am)
Reply |
Re: I
know!
Janet
http://www.nese.net
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Rostroiamnot
Registered User
(10/12/00 7:54:59 am)
Reply |
Community Orchestras
Hi Ellen,
In my University of
Toronto Orchestra (Faculty, Students, Alumni), we must audition for
the first "few" desks. But I enjoyed reading your posting because
there is a definate "cliquiness" to where you go to sit. Because I
am Alumni, I sit where my conductor places me. He knows my ability
with regards to the new players that he auditions.
What is your
orchestra repertoire this season.
Last week we began playing
"O Canada" in memory of Pierre Elliott Trudeau. We were all very
moved by our conductor's inspiring speech. I had never seen Errol
Gay so emotional. He actually broke down in tears at the end. Music
moves!
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violoncello15
Registered User
(10/12/00 2:33:40 pm)
Reply |
Seat
assignments
In my experience with orchestras,
I've found the seating situation to be very political. I've gone
from last chair to second chair to mid section to back and then up
front again. The orchestra seemed more famous for musical chairs
than the great music they were producing. The weird thing with this
particular orchestra was that the conductor and coach never stated
that we were going to rotate. Each time was based on a mini audition
for the next concert. Of course it can be confusing and upsetting,
but what makes me rest easy especially when it comes to amateur or
semi-pay orchestras is that I'm taking part in the orchestra because
I want to be part of the miracle of making music. I know my ability
and I prepare for the concerts just as much as others in the section
and in the end it wasn't only the principal or second chair that
made the section happen, it was the entire section.
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Ponticello
Registered
User
(10/12/00 9:44:34 pm)
Reply |
seating
In my college orchestra we have
assigned seating which we stick to for pretty much every
concert
But the main sensitive issue is LATENESS
I understand
that when 3 or 4 people dont show up, the cellists who sit behind
them should move up to prevent there being gaps, but what peeves me
the MOST is when the cellist in back move up into higher seats like
2 or 3 minutes before rehearsal begins! Then I feel awkward when I
get there right on time, and I wonder if I should tell them that
they are sitting in my seat!
Also I think 9th chair (5th
stand) is an AWESOME chair, because, at least in my orchestras, the
5th stand sits up front sort of to the southeast of the 1st stand.
That way you get to see the conductor easily AND you dont have to
turn pages.
All in all though, students seem much more
relaxed about seating then adult community orchestras. When I played
with the community orchestra, people there tended to be very snobby
and mean, especially the cellists. If people act like that, and are
so protective of their seats to the point of being rude, it's not
fun anymore
Part of the reason I left the community orch. in
NYC was that people there were pretty cold, maybe it was a NYC
thing, but based on what others are saying it seems that the older
you get the grumpier you get
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Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
(10/15/00 9:54:08 am)
Reply |
The
best seat!
I know that ego is involved in
seating in youth orchestras (at least it certainly was when i played
in one). One's position in a professional orchestra, to the extent
that it is achieved as the result of audition can be important to
career advancement.
For some adults ego is also involved in
seating in amateur orchestras. But there other factors as well, and
I think I've seen them at work over the years. Some people want to
sit next to the same stand partner. They are used to it, they know
their flaws will not be criticized.
Some people want to sit
in a certain place because they are used to being able to see the
conductor while playing there. Move them, and they have to learn a
whole new set of clues - and from a new perspective. Our orchestra
rehearses in a hall with raised seating - except for the very first
stand of each string section. However, when we do our final
rehearsals and give our concerts, we are playing on a flat stage,
and only two rows of wind players are raised. It is disconcerting to
have to adjust in this way.
You just never for sure know why
people do what they do or want what they want.
Andy
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mstein
Registered User
(10/17/00 12:17:13 am)
Reply |
Re:
Community Orchestra people, a question
I currently play in the Arlington
(VA) Symphony, a semiprofessional orchestra. (I'm the last volunteer
player left in the group.) All players except the first stand rotate
regularly; the section is pretty strong and even although this was
not entirely the case when I first joined the orchestra.
When
I played in the Battle Creek (MI) Symphony, which was not nearly as
good as Arlington, there was quite a disparity in skill. It's my
personal opinion that in such a group, it is preferable NOT to seat
by skill level from front to back. I think it's a good idea to mix
strong players in among the weaker ones to help them along. If this
is explained to the stronger players, so that they don't expect
their seating to be related to their skill level, I don't anticipate
much
friction as a result of that.
- Mike Stein
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