| Author |
Subject |
Makaveli
Registered User
(10/15/00 11:26:00 pm)
Reply |
Playing
classical music in a non-classical period.
Hellos to all the cellists on this
board -
Maybe this topic has been discussed before. i
wouldn't know. If i'm bringing up something old again, please bear
with me. 
Let me start of by asking, how many of ya listen to music
other than classical, on a regular basis? i think if i asked this on
the young cellists board, i'd probably have the majority saying that
they do.
i don't know if anyone else feels the same way i do
about this topic, but don't you feel that it's hard to play
classical after you've listened to something non-classical for a
while..? Me, for example, i'd admit(with deep guilt) that all i seem
to listen to these days is rap, stuff performed by artists that
mothers of Amerika would call "one level higher than a criminal".
And even though this is totally unrelated, let me just add, no, i
never listen to that white boy named eminem, if that's what people
call rap these days.
Anyhow, forgive if i went off topic.
After hours of this non-classical music, i find it IMPOSSIBLE to
concentrate on playing cello.. i tried playing Bach after a few
songs of rap.. it was a really bad experience. Not being able to
concentrate is one thing, emotions you put in, they're not "true"
any more. At the same time, i felt like i was insulting Mr.Bach,
whom i have a lot of respect for, as i expect many of you here do as
well, by attempting to play his music while my mind was so "messed
up".
Do any of ya on this board feel the same way? Do you
think the transition of hundreds of years of time is possible within
seconds?
i'm not saying that i'm not able to play the cello
at all. It's just when i try to get my mind back to this "classical
mindset", i can't do it, after listening to "modern
music".
This has made me think of *this*, in
consequence..
Let me take Yo-Yo Ma as an example, though i'm
very cautious about it, since saying something "bad" about him could
get me in my casket tomorrow..
Do you think someone like Yo-Yo
Ma is doing a good job of serving the music that he's playing? i
remember someone saying that musicians should strive to "serve"
their music, and i wholeheartedly agree with whoever it was. But how
can someone, no matter how hard he tries, be able to do that, when
he lives in a world like this..? The culture and environment has
changed a GREAT DEAL since music like Bach's was written. The way
people thought of things, the general outlook on society was
different. The culture was different. Back then, they didn't have
pop music like hmm, what are they called, britney aguilera and
christina spears? or the lipsyncs? whatever. They certainly didn't
have whiteboys like eminem trying to paint themselves black either.
Let us keep in mind that back then, classical music was something
equivalent to what we call pop music these days. It was music that
the general public listened to. Now, only 1% of the population
listens to classical music, i hear. The numbers are probably
decreasing too.
My question is, i repeat, can someone living in a
world like this, be able to serve classical music as he/she's
supposed to?
Let us look at it this way. Look how the concept
of Christianity has changed. God has taughts us how we should
behave, things we should do, things we shouldn't, but look how far
things have changed. People did not work on Sundays. Now does anyone
care about that?
Homosexuality IS in fact against the Lord's
wish. But now what do we have, Gay-pride walks every Sunday? and did
you know that the priest in your church was gay too?
Abortion?
There are doctors out there who kill babies for a living.. is it
alright to kill the ones incapable of expressing themselves?
The
list goes on, but i should restrain myself here. But do you feel me?
All i'm trying to say is that things have changed, A GREAT DEAL,
whether we want to acknowledge it or not.
Now, can someone living
on the face of earth today, be able to serve classical music as well
as someone who, say, lived 200 years ago? We are identified as
social animals. No matter how hard you may try not to be affected by
all these things around you as a society, all your efforts are in
vain. And this will, in one way or another be expressed in your
music.
And my point being, people are simply not able to
serve classical music as well as they would have been, hundreds
years ago.
Now you could argue, since music is for the
enjoyment of the listeners and performers, it doesn't matter. That
is true. And i expect that the style in which classical music is
performed and listened to, will change even more in the years to
come. People will adjust to that new style and enjoy it as much as
they do right now, or even more, who knows.
But for one
thing, no one can deny the fact that classical music is more and
more moving away from the creators' intentions. But is classical
still classical when we keep changing the style in which it is
performed?
Thanks for bearing with me.
Peace y'all.
|
SrPilha
Registered
User
(10/16/00 8:56:47 am)
Reply |
Re:
Playing classical music in a non-classical period.
Ok, I'll jump in
fearlessly.
Playing what we call classical music is always
possible, regardless of the environment, because the important thing
is what it brings to you and causes you, and good music can always
bring new stuff and be rediscovered over and over. Otherwise, no one
would ever hear of Shakespeare either nowadays.
From another
angle, what's a classical environment, or a classical period? Good
music is still being done, and classical music, as we name it, has
always dialogued with popular music. So rap comes from the blues,
which shares roots with Jazz in the classical repertoire. Not to
mention the cellist rapper we see around here sometimes (sorry I
forgot his name - Von Cello?), who doesn't seem to see a line where
you drew one.
So anyway, music (actually art in general) is
about expression, and we'll always have something to express, trough
old texts and techniques and methods, or new ones.
By the
way, Yo-Yo plays great jazz and quite good tango as
well.
And that's my participation on this
topic.
Guilherme Carvalho
|
Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(10/16/00 2:35:40 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Playing classical music in a non-classical period.
I listen to TONS of music besides
classical. Some of my favorites include Moxy Fruvous, Live, Rusted
Root, P.J. Olsson, and the hilarious Austin Lounge Lizards. I also
love Simon & Garfunkel, Cream, and almost all of the classic
Motown (I'm from Detroit, how could I deny my love of motown???).
Oh, and the Police. I love the Police.
>"At the same time,
i felt like i was insulting Mr.Bach, whom i have a lot of respect
for, as >i expect many of you here do as well, by attempting to
play his music while my mind was >so 'messed
up'."
Interesting. I've noticed this sometimes after
listening to techno music, it being pretty much brainless. I wonder
if it says something about what this music is worth if it doesn't
seem to stimulate our brains in any way. If we are inspired while
listening to classical music, whether to write, draw, perform,
whatever, than I think that signifies some sort of worth/merit (need
to find some better descriptives). Techno/rap/alternative doesn't
stimulate our brains, as shown in many scientific studies relating
music to brain function. Could it be that these types of music are
not as valuable to the advancement of our culture if they do not
inspire?
>The culture and environment has changed a GREAT
DEAL since music like Bach's was >written.
I don't know if
this is really true. Let's look at Shakespeare, for instance,
specifically Romeo and Juliet. The basic fundamentals of the story,
love, senseless hatred, conspiracy, murder, are just as relevant in
today's society as they were during Shakespeare's time. When the
DiCaprio/Danes version of R&J was released, the film was highly
successful; if it were not relevant, most likely it would have
crashed and burned at the box office. The same is true of Bach and
other classical music. Maybe some of the details and stylistic ideas
are not 'relevant' now, but the basic fundamentals are relevant.
Then you have to decide what 'relevant' really means. Is the music
relevant to today's pop trends? Probably not. Is it relevant to the
contemporary classical? Probably so. This is a topic with a lot of
if's, and's and but's.
>Homosexuality IS in fact against
the Lord's wish.
>Abortion? There are doctors out there who
kill babies for a living..
These are not very good examples
to use. Homosexuality is not new; there have always been gay people.
Look throughout history and you will see examples of men and women
who are now thought to have been gay. What has changed is public
acceptance, which I believe is a wonderful thing. Abortions have
been going on for centuries, but are only now receiving a large
portion of media attention for various reasons. I don't want to get
into a religious debate, I'd be the first to admit my little
knowledge on the subject, but I don't believe that any god would
frown upon this world's cultural and technological
advancements.
>no one can deny the fact that classical
music is more and more moving away from the >creators'
intentions.
I can. Do you honestly think that Bach expected
music to remain static for all eternity? I highly doubt it. Look at
some of his fugues! They were so new and original, very different
tonalities and structures than anything before. Mozart's operas had
story lines that were groundbreaking, bringing completely different
classes of people into one place. Stravinsky's Rite of Spring is
dumped into the generic "classical" category by many who are not
familiar with the definition of the word, but it's first performance
started a riot! The music being written today is based on similar
concepts and ideas as Mozart/Bach/Stravinsky used, but the nuances,
style, details change. Over time, the 'new' details become the
'basic' concepts and ideas.
The bottom line is that
everything will, in the natural course of things, change and evolve.
Art, technology, culture in general was never expected to remain the
same as it was thousands of years ago.
-Laura
|
ruthann
Registered User
(10/16/00 2:49:11 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Playing classical music in a non-classical period.
I was going to try to leave this one
alone. Really I was. But it's been bothering me. Not the issue of is
classical music relevant. But the use of some of the language in
your post. Now I'll admit to getting old (42, the meaning of life,
the universe and everything) and quite possibly desperately un-hip,
but I really disliked your use of the term "whiteboy," not only
because it seems to be pejorative. As prudish as it sounds, I feel
that name calling is bad manners and color-based name calling is not
called for here, or anywhere else.
How's that for
sanctimonious
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com
|
Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(10/16/00 3:04:32 pm)
Reply |
Re: I
agree with Ruthann.
|
DWThomas
Registered User
(10/16/00 3:20:31 pm)
Reply |
Not
santcimonious, just sensible!
Yes, I came within milliseconds of
jumping on this post early this morning. Then it hit me that it is
mostly patterned after the classic Usenet troll.  Rambling
words vaguely on topic but interspersed with little jabs to see how
many hostilities can be aroused.
And having spent the weekend
at a Cello Festival, I really have no hostilities to be aroused
today 
Dave
|
String4tetCellist
Registered User
(10/16/00 3:59:28 pm)
Reply |
Also in
agreement with Ruthann
|
zambocello
Registered User
(10/16/00 5:11:22 pm)
Reply |
I
resisted
Wrote a very long post in response
and ditched it. 
|
Makaveli
Registered User
(10/16/00 6:04:46 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Playing classical music in a non-classical period.
i hope this doesn't turn out to be a
long-heated argument between me and some other people, but consider
the fact that african-americans can call each other "N*****", but a
non-african-american would not be able to call an african-american
that. It would have been wrong, for sure, if i were an
african-american person, calling him a "whiteboy". But this is not
the case here.
Part of my name-calling also comes from my
disrespect for eminem himself. Though this is totally non-cello
related, many "original" hip-hop fans(prior to eminem's debut) will
agree that eminem's debut and stardom are two of the worst things
that ever happened to the rap scene.
Also consider the effect
he's had on school-aged children between the ages of 8-13. A lot of
people do not appreciate rap until their mid-late teens, which i
consider to be a very positive thing, because then teens are able to
draw the line between reality and what a rap artist is talking
about. Their values, beliefs are already set, and they will not go
about doing crazy things they've heard in a rap song.
But think
about all these 8-13 year old kids who listen to eminem because they
find him cute(mainly because he's white) and "funny". But stuff he
talks about is killing his mother, suing his uncle, murdering his
wife and all kinds of other horrible stuff. This kind of
"entertainment" is certainly not good for any of us, but i think it
takes its tolls on the younger children. What do you think these
children, who've been listening to songs of hatred and violence like
it was a natural part of life, have in mind when they grow up? i
wouldn't be surprised if someone did the exact same thing eminem
raps about in his songs.
Just my two cents. If i had kids, i
would NOT let them listen to that __________________________
.
|
Laura
Wichers
Registered
User
(10/16/00 6:07:04 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Playing classical music in a non-classical period.
Two wrongs don't make a right, you
know.
-Laura
|
Len
Thompson
Registered User
(10/16/00 7:01:31 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Playing classical music in a non-classical period.
In brief, I think GOD definately had
a part in the creation of quality music, of which some is classical.
This is the reason it is so lasting. As for playing classical after
listening to other types of more modern music, I have no problem
here. In fact it's just the opposite. I find such a solice in having
classical music to come home to .
Just my thought's on the
subject.
Len
|
Corrina
Connor
Registered
User
(10/17/00 12:16:26 am)
Reply |
Re:
Playing classical music in a non-classical period.
Firstly, if you are over 18 you are
too old for the Young Cellists Board.
>>i tried playing
Bach after a few songs of rap.. it was a really bad experience. Not
being able to concentrate is one thing, emotions you put in, they're
not "true" any more. At the same time, i felt like i was insulting
Mr.Bach, whom i have a lot of respect for, as i expect many of you
here do as well, by attempting to play his music while my mind was
so "messed up".<<
That just shows. To me, listening to
music is a spiritual experience, or at least something that for a
short time allows us to be up-lifted from the hum and the drum and
relieve from our souls some of the strains of life. It should
perhaps suggest new emotion, or rekindle different emotions within
us. I think that it is such a pity that so many 'artists' are
wasting time by producing stuff that won't do anything for somebody
except mess up their minds.
And this is true not just of
'classical' music. There are many other styles of music that do
something emotionally. There is so-called 'pop' music that makes me
think, if it is genuinely expressing something, not just mad desires
to kill and maim, and profanity. What does this do for
civilisation?
I also don't think that there is a classical
mindset. I don't feel that one should have to be in a special 'mood'
to play. Often what we play determins what our mood is.
And
is 'classical music' only music written hundreds of years ago? If
so, what of Schoenburg, Mahler, Stravinsky, Shostokovich, Stock,
Webern, Britten?
I think that what these few composers whom
I've mentioned, and many others communicated emotions that are
relevant to today, as did Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, Brahms.
In
their music is expressed fear, pain, joy, wonder, love...
And
think of the conditions that some of these people composed under!
Deafness, illness, repression, tragedy, war....people still
suffer from these things today, and I think that they will as long
as there are people on this earth.
Right now I am listening
to the Adagio of Mahler's 10th Symphony. This was written by a man
very much aware of his own mortality, but it is not some mournful
dirge. Maybe we are not able to understand exactly what he felt, but
we can identify with him in some small part.
And how do
we know the creator's intentions? We just have to rely on our own
emotions and thoughts, while obeying what they've actually written.
To me, as long as music is being performed, and moving people it is
true to the composers intentions.
This has turned into
as long a rant as the original post.
I'll
stop.
Corrina
|
Corrina
Connor
Registered
User
(10/17/00 12:17:10 am)
Reply |
Re: I
resisted
So did I, for 27 whole hours 
|
Makaveli
Registered User
(10/17/00 2:44:46 am)
Reply |
Re:
Playing classical music in a non-classical period.
Thanks ya'll for replying,
appreciated.
i guess classical music is bound to change, and
it is not neccessarily a bad thing, by any means.. but can we agree
on the fact that as time moves on, it will become more and more
impossible to play the music the way the composer had it in his/her
mind..?
Take Starker's Kodaly sonata for example. Kodaly himself
acknowledged that Starker's performance was almost exactly what he
had in mind, when he composed it.. something along those lines. What
i'm thinking is, there will never be anyone who will do a better job
than Starker has, on that particular sonata. Of course, "exactly
what the composer had in mind" and "beautiful and more enjoyable"
are two different things. All i'm saying is that we will probably
never be able to perform things that they were originally intented
to, i mean.. hmm.. i need better wording here..
But no doubt,
classical music will adapt itself to new periods of times and the
general audiences varying tastes.
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