| Author |
Subject |
dennisw
Registered User
(1/8/01 4:06:09 pm)
Reply |
Squeeky
a-string
I'm looking at a cello that seems to
squeek more the higher you go on the a-string.
The strings
are new and high-quality (larsen's) and I have kept them clean &
free of rosin build-up.
I notice that when I get the squeek,
the string seems not to resonate right away, but is slightly
delayed.
It seems to get worse the higher up I go. It doesn't
happen every time on the same notes (intermittant). It seems to
happen more on faster notes than on slower ones.
I don't know
if humidity plays a role here. It is in a very, very dry climate
w/no humidifier.
The squeek is extremely annoying. It's loud
and the pitch is not related to the note (it's not a higher
harmonic). It's just an ugly squeek.
Any ideas on this???? I
fear it means something is wrong with the cello (built in
1995).
|
Todd
French 
Registered User
(1/9/01 1:46:17 am)
Reply
 |
Re:
Squeeky a-string
Dennis,
Is this a new squeak
that you did not notice before or a new cello to you?
|
Dick500
Registered User
(1/9/01 9:45:30 am)
Reply |
Re:
Squeak
Does the squeak totally obliterate
the pitch? Y/N
Does the squeak happen more when you play loudly?
Y/N
Does the squeak happen more when you play over the
fingerboard as opposed to at the bridge? Y/N
Assuming that
the post fits and is in the right place, and assuming that the
bridge fits and is sitting with the feet flush in the right place,
two things come to mind.
One--If the squeak is just an
annoying little thing, then the winding may have been damaged where
the string goes over the bridge, or, more likely:
Two--The
gauge (thickness) of the string may be too light for this particular
combination of cello and set-up.
When I find a string is too
light in gauge, very often the problem is solved by going to a
thicker gauge of the same brand. I assume that the Larsen A is a
medium which has a red thread winding at the pegbox end (thin is
blue, thick is yellow). Try going up one gauge.
I have found
that most, but certainly not all, cellos respond well to medium
gauge strings. Therefore, the popular wisdon has it that medium
gauge is, by default, normal. However, a cello that responds badly
when played softly (squeaks, whistles, etc) often needs a thinner
gauge of a particular brand of strings--which then becomes that
cello's normal gauge. Conversely, a cello which responds badly when
played loudly (squeaks, groans, and yes answers to the questions
above) often needs a thicker gauge of a particular brand of
strings--which in turn becomes that cello's normal gauge. Normal,
for a particular cello when using a particular brand or combination
of brands of strings, is therefore not always medium--rather it is
whatever happens to work well on that instrument.
When asked
for string recommendations out of the blue, I always suggest
experimenting first with medium gauge strings because most
instruments respond best to medium gauge. Kind of an 80/20
approach.
I assume that when you say you are looking at a
cello, it means that you are considering buying it. See if you can
get some string history on the instrument. Maybe somebody else has
long ago solved the same problem which you are now
facing.
Dick
|
Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
(1/9/01 10:28:29 am)
Reply |
Re:
Squeeky a-string
You might try some different bows. I
have found some squeaks that were cured by:
1. different,
heavier, bow
2. playing with less index finger force
3.
attempting (a little more) to raise my right hand to assure that the
bow is straight across the string
4. changing A string brand - my
latest, Belcanto Gold, seems particularly clean to me an the 3
cellos I've tried it on.
Andy
|
dennisw
Registered User
(1/9/01 3:04:49 pm)
Reply |
re:squeeky a-string
Hi Todd,
This is a new cello
to me, but it is a known problem.
I have also noticed that
the response, in general on the a-string is just ok, and that the
sound tends to be fairly thin and sharp (piercing). My original
thinking was this: if the sound is really cutting, it may be harsh
under the ear, but it may carry well in a hall. If I can solve the
squeeks, then it may be an ok cello.
Now I am beginning to
wonder if the squeeks are related to the overall response &
sound character of the a-string. I'm really not sure.
|
dennisw
Registered User
(1/9/01 3:19:19 pm)
Reply |
re:
squeeky a-string
Does the squeek totally obliterate
the pitch?
YES
Does the squeek happen more when you play
loudly?
YES, in general, but also a faster lighter bow stroke can
cause it. like spiccato octaves.
Does the squeek happen more when
you play over the fingerboard as opposed to the bridge?
NO, not
necessarily. My bow trends toward the bridge, the higher up I play.
I hear this squeek pretty regularly when I'm above the 2nd octave
A.
One thing I did try was: above the 2nd octave A to slow
the bow down and concentrate on making sure that all the bowhairs
were in contact with the string all the time (I kept the stick
straight up). That seemed to help. Unfortunately, I can't play that
way all the time.
Another minor point is that the harmonics
never seem to squeek, only stopped notes.
Your point on
string choice is interesting. The current set are larsen lights
(blue) on a&d with Thomastik tungsten medium spirocore's on the
g&c. I'm going to try the medium and the heavy, just to cover my
bases. Thanks for the suggestion.
|
dennisw
Registered User
(1/9/01 3:33:39 pm)
Reply |
re:
squeeky a-string
Hmm... Let's see the bow I have is
81 grams. I did try it with a lighter bow (77 grams) & it didn't
seem to make a difference (not a good bow, however). Maybe heavier
than 81 grams would be better??
Re: the index finger. I
thought of that. I tried spiccato octaves to eliminate the
possiblity of over-pressing. That didn't seem to make a
difference.
Re: straight across the string. If I'm really
careful and use a slow bow with a straight up stick & all the
bow hairs in contact all the time, it seem to work. It's just that I
don't play that way all the time. Sometimes I need a light brush
stroke with lots of wrist action & not much bow for fast
passages. That always seems to cause the bow to strike the string at
some kind of an angle.
Re: the A string brand. That has been
mentioned before. I've never tried the Belcanto's before. Perhaps
that is worth a try.
|
dennisw
Registered User
(1/9/01 3:35:29 pm)
Reply |
re:
squeeky a-string (one more point)
If the bridge & soundpost were
NOT in optimal alignment, could that possibly cause this kind of a
squeek????
|
TerryM
Registered
User
(1/9/01 3:38:27 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Squeeky a-string
It might be worth trying a small
adjustment to the soundpost as well. This can often change the
response of the cello and perhaps eliminate or minimize this
problem. If the cello is coming from a good shop they may have
adjusted the soundpost already.
Very generally speaking,
moving the soundpost closer to the bridge will emphasize the A It
might be worth trying a small adjustment to the soundpost as well.
This can often change the response of the cello and perhaps
eliminate or minimize this problem. If the cello is coming from a
good shop they may have adjusted the soundpost already.
Very
generally speaking, moving the soundpost closer to the bridge will
emphasize the A & D strings and vice versa. Moving it towards
the bass side will give more relative sound to the bass strings.
Movement in the bass string direction can only be minimal as the
soundpost is cut to fit at one location. The cello may be come
deeper as a result of the arching. This would position the soundpost
in an area where it would now be too short. Your luthier should be
able to help you with this adjustment.
Terry
|
Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
(1/11/01 10:36:15 am)
Reply |
Re:
Squeeky a-string - SADDLE PROBLEM?
One more thought. I had a cello
problem a couple of years ago - affected all of the thumb position
playing. It was greatly helped by raising the saddle (at the
"tailgut"). This reduced the constant downward force of the strings
on the bridge and did free up the tone (the late Al Stancel had
suggested this as a cure).
Before having a permanent saddle
replacement I had experimented by inserting some cardboard (about
1/8" - 1/4") between the saddle and the tailgut - and played with it
that way for a while. It did improve the response of the higher
notes on all strings.
Andy
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