| Author |
Subject |
shapiroa
Registered
User
(12/21/00 2:35:10 pm)
Reply |
More on
Du Pre
You folks might be interested in
reading this recent article from The Times (of London).
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,7-53214,00.html
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Lucy
Clifford
Registered User
(12/21/00 3:20:09 pm)
Reply |
Re:
More on Du Pre
Very interesting article. I hadn't
seen it, but I'd heard about the new docu-film, and am looking
forward to seeing it. I personally found "A Genius in the Family" to
be a bit trashy - almost one of those tell-all books. It is part of
that strange aspect of modern life - as soon as a person dies, Boom,
we have to hear 'all' about them. Du Pre was to me, and most other
people, first and foremost a cellist. She played so beautifully, and
could and can transport people.
It has been known for some
time about the Kiffer Finzi business, and their peculiar domestic
set-up; I have no objection to them living however they wanted, but
to write all about it.
It seems that whenever a 'fairy tale'
ends, we have to hear about how it was never a fairy-tale et al -
see the multiple books written about Charles and Diana......one of
which I was unfortunate enough to read the other day. It beats me
how people could write this stuff, which must be very hurtful to the
'survivors'. Do people get some sort of perverted pleasure out of
writing the stuff?
IMHO every family has its secrets and
stories - I know many people who could write a book about their
family! Maybe the insiders do know 'more', and yes, perhaps they are
bitter, but bitterness written down is most
unpleasant.
#Elsie#
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Patricia2
Registered User
(12/21/00 5:24:23 pm)
Reply |
Re:
More on Du Pre
Thanks for pointing this out --
really interesting.
I don't agree with the author, though,
that Nupen shouldn't have done his film -
(though I hate the
title)
because, after all, there is "A Genius in the Family" for
anyone to see, and in the absence of another "feature film" with a
different perspective and an equally popular actress, it's a rather
shoddy lop-sided image to leave with total strangers, no?
Of
course her recordings are her legacy -- and would that That Book had
never been written, leaving most of us with only the recordings and
Nupen's films.
But the memories we leave behind us are a
legacy, too, and I applaud Nupen et al for caring enough to want to
share their so very different memories.
I attended an evening
organized by Nupen devoted to Jackie, with long clips from the films
as well as a "round table" sort of discussion with some of the
friends mentioned in the article. His passion for the subject could
not have seemed more sincere -- straight from the heart.
(And I
certainly don't blame him for resenting the funding bit - he did
many films for the BBC about many musicians, not just duPre; it's
not as if he's not a prof'l filmmaker! One wonders what their
reasoning was in supporting the commercial endeavor & not the
documentary...)
Thanks again for the article.
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TerryM
Registered
User
(12/21/00 5:43:02 pm)
Reply |
How
sad...how very sad
What has 'happened' to Jackie is
what happens to so many people, we want to put, for whatever reason,
on pedestals, only, at some point, to push over and watch the pieces
fall where they may. Our 'culture' thrives on watching the great
fall. How very sad. Jackie was a human being like all others. What
she did in her personal life is hers, just as is, what I do in mine
and you do in yours.
I did not go to see 'that' movie
because I carry a very special memory of seeing Jackie and Daniel
Barenboim and the English Chamber Orchestra playing the Haydn
Concerto in 1967. I sat about ten feet away from Jackie and I took
two of my very dear friends, who are English and were living in
Canada and who were a couple of weeks away from returning to live in
the UK. That BRAVO!, so spontaneously shouted by my dear friend,
still rings in my ears today. The whole audience jumped to its
collective feet at the very end of the concerto. I have never seen
this happen before or since. Jackie's face was all smiles and what
energy and radiance she had! What a special memory shared with two
friends who are still my friends after more than thirty years.
No cheap, sensational, trashy film is going to take that
memory from me. Jackie was a wonderfully electrifying cellist and a
great human being. Her personal life was hers for the short time she
had on this earth and should be left that way. 'Let it
be'
Terry
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Dorie
Straus
Registered User
(12/21/00 7:12:17 pm)
Reply |
Patricia, et al.
There is a very objective fairly
recent autobiography of Du Pre by Elizabeth Wilson. It's been out
for a couple years. Perhaps it could be a Christmas gift to yourself
this year.
|
Ponticello
Registered
User
(12/30/00 3:27:32 am)
Reply |
Re:
Patricia, et al.
Personally, I have heard a lot of
people on the board trashing the movie Hilary and Jackie, but I
think some of you are being really hard on it. It was really a very
moving picture IMO, I had not even HEARD of JAckie Du Pre until the
movie came out, and after I saw it last year, I now, own recordings
of every piece she made, and also have the filem by Nupen.
It's
true, the movie did expose that unreasonable request she made of
Hilary, but I do not think it was trashy at all. I would bet at
least hundreds of people didnt even know who she was before the
movie came out.
I just think you may want to check it out, if you
haven't already. I honestly dont think your memories of her will be
tarnished in any way by seeing it, and you may find out something
you didnt know
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Dorie
Straus
Registered User
(12/30/00 7:42:43 am)
Reply |
Ponticello
Perhaps one of the reasons people
trashed the movie around these parts is because some people knew
her, or at least saw her play. This might be crude to say but her
corpse is still warm - relatively/historically speaking, of course.
When someone makes a movie about Mozart, fictionalizes his life and
makes some of his more childish characteristics comic, it's
different - he's been dead a long time and he's almost become part
of public domain like his music. By now, there have been umteen
biographies written, there are a kzillion Mozart scholars and some
of those folks are dead, too. Bet you heard of Mozart before you saw
the movie...
Another thing is this, even though the H & J
moive was based on the book, if you get the chance to make a movie
and it's going to run for about 100 minutes and you spend even 15 of
those minutes on a scandal, that's a big chunck of time in film
time. But, sex & related scandals sell movies.
And, as
for the movie being your introduction to Jackie Du Pre - that's
actually sort of sad. This is another reason some people may have
trashed the movie. Many feel that people learned of her through a
fictionalized account of her life and a performance by Emily Watson
that was less than accurate. This brings this whole thing back to
this: A full length documentary wouldn't sell. I saw H & J and
couldn't help but thinking: These other Du Pre children couldn't
deal with their sister and they sure can hold a grudge.
Hope
I didn't sound tough here - didn't mean to.
Edited by: Dorie
Straus at: 12/30/00 7:42:43 am
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Dorie
Straus
Registered User
(12/30/00 7:40:00 am)
Reply |
And
also...
I heard from someone - a British
cellist friend, not to say that this is a fact, it's still hearsay,
but Jackie left the bulk of her estate to Barenboim in spite of the
fact that she knew he was living with someone else and had a child
with her. Goes along with different times and different
thinking...her business, for sure.
To expand that point - I
never heard that the Du Pre siblings donated their profits from the
book or royalties from the movie to some endowment for cellists or
kitty rescue or anything altruistic. Makes you question the
motivation to market such a 'tell all' (as Lucy/Elsie said) family
tale.
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Corrina
Connor
Registered
User
(12/30/00 6:20:43 pm)
Reply |
Please
pardon the interpolation
This is a topic about which I feel
strongly. I know at least 5 people for whom H&J was an
introduction to du Pre, and the cello, sadly enough in a high school
music class. And this is the picture that they have of her: a
selfish, mentally unstable, egoist who took advantage of family and
friends.
And now they don't believe the decent
biographies/films, because 'that's not what was in the movie, and
her family were involved in the movie'. They also believe that she
died about three years after she became ill, not in 1987, after
tragic years of physical disintergration.
Much the same goes
for 'Amadeus', except that is slightly different, because as Dorie
says, many scholarly books have been written about Mozart, and it
was not a one-off box-office thing, being first a respected play.
However, when high-school music teachers show these films to
instruct their music class about such great people, it shows the
presence of 'dumbing down'.
Why not show the Nupen Films?
Why not show the brilliant video documentaries about Mozart and
life/music in 18th Vienna? Because, as Dorie says, it won't
sell!
Also, biographies of family relationships could hardly
be objective, could they? It was more a book about themselves than
about their sister, and it was one that could have done without
being written.
I don't say this because we need to stick du
Pre on a pedestal, inside an ivory tower (mixing metaphors!), but
because to the public she was a cellist, as Elsie says!
Maybe the
other members of the de Pre family had memories, but these memories
were private ones, as we all have, and were better left
unsaid.
I wouldn't have posted on this board, but this whole
biography 'issue' affects me, and makes me very sad
indeed.
|
bridge
Registered
User
(12/31/00 10:04:42 am)
Reply |
Re:
More on Du Pre
Thanks for posting that article. It
was very good. On a tangent: Being an American, it is nice to see
that somewhere in the world newspaper articles are still written in
English assuming that the reader has graduated elementary
school.
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Bob
Registered User
(1/1/01 6:48:43 pm)
Reply |
The
long view
What du Pre "is" now is someone who
made some amazing recordings. That is her legacy. She gave a few
masterclasses, but no one could honestly be called "her student."
There really is nothing else she has left to the world. Other
cellists left legacies in addition to their recordings; Slava all
that literature he commissioned, Starker & Rose all those
well-trained cellists, etc. Many of us, including me, heard du Pre
and deeply value those memories. But we'll all be dust pretty soon.
Picasso & Mozart were, by all accounts, people who
behaved badly. But so what? What they have left us will endure
forever. Does anyone need to know the details of their personal
lives to appreciate their art? Ridiculous. So too with du Pre's art.
There were so many stupid, wrong, and/or offensive things in
"Hilary" movie I wouldn't know where to start. It didn't even
attempt to convey (because there is no way it could have) the
incredible magnetism she possessed on stage. We saw merely that she
developed rapidly as a child. Hell, so did I. But her unique,
lambent artistry was simply beyond the ability of Hollywood (or
wherever) to capture. But it was this special gift which was the
SOLE REASON we were sitting there watching the movie in the first
place! Her MS affliction was tragic, of course, but lots of other
people contract MS too, some very talented in other fields, and no
one makes big-budget movies about them. Probably more people than we
might think sleep with their in-laws too, but we don't generally
hear about that either unless we watch Jerry Springer. No, the
reason the siblings wrote a book, and the studios ventured a major
movie, and many of us went to see it was because du Pre was one of
the major performing artists of the century. Not one frame of the
film came close to conveying that.
I, and anyone, could go on
and on about the film's flaws, and indeed the venality and pettiness
that were its basic underpinnings. But (and here, for those who've
bothered to read this far, is the point of this post) SO WHAT? Du
Pre's permanent, as opposed to ephemeral, legacy is her recordings.
Before this sick, stupid movie came out, Ponticello hadn't heard
any. Now, thanks to the movie, he/she has. Is it really important
what sort of image of the du Pre family he/she might carry around?
Not to me. I only know that someone has been exposed to a great
artist that he/she might not have otherwise. That's good, right?
This is why we don't need to trouble ourselves with Kiffer,
Nupen, Danny, or anyone else. None of that is ultimately important;
what IS important (her music) has now entered someone's life, and
this scenario has undoubtedly been repeated in tens of thousands of
others' cases. There have been similar contretemps concerning
Shostakovich and Stravinsky, people fighting over their souls after
their deaths. It's silly and ugly. What matters is what they left us
that will endure forever, and in this case, the movie has, on
balance, done good in the world.
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Ellen
G 
Registered User
(1/2/01 8:40:08 am)
Reply |
Re: The
long view
Well, it is good to see you back
with such a cogent post.
I never saw the film because too
many serious cellists I knew said they didn't like it. The people
who recommended it to me either weren't musicians or didn't have the
degree of familiarity. I was definitely swayed to avoid it and I
don't feel I've missed anything.
Most flicks with an
"insider" track are found to be entertaining by those not in the
know, while the experts in the field are in a position to recognize
all the flaws and dramatizations which usually make the movie and
its premise ludicrous. People flocked to that Alaskan bear movie a
few years ago, and my sister who lives in Alaska hated it. Doctors
and lawyers complain about the inaccuracies in those films. But if a
single detail in a movie causes someone to learn, question,
investigate, explore, then that is a redeeming quality I
suppose.
I also never saw that movie with the pianist -- what
was the name of it? And of course none of us can quite fathom how
Joshua Bell managed his dual antics in "The Red Violin." Gee, don't
we all play our instruments while having mad passionate sex? (This
is why it is an adult amateur board.)
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JanJan2
Registered User
(1/2/01 9:35:53 am)
Reply |
The
movie about the pianist
Do you mean Shine?
Janet www.nese.net
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JanJan2
Registered User
(1/2/01 9:50:31 am)
Reply |
Bravo!
My teacher introduced me to Jackie
(about 5 years ago) with one of the Nupen videos. I'd never heard of
her either before that. Since then, of course, I purchased many of
her recordings and continued to be amazed by her enormous talent.
When the book came out I bought it. When the movie came out
I saw it. Both struck me as inane and vindictive, focusing on all
the wrong things.
But whenever I think of Jackie I think of
Elgar or Beethoven or any other piece of her recorded legacy. As
foolish as the movie was, if it introduces Ponticello and others
(who will explore further) to Du Pre's talent, I guess it was worth
producing.
It's just too bad that so many folks will only
remember the senstationalism and will not seek out the true
artist.
Janet www.nese.net
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Ellen
G
Registered User
(1/2/01 3:38:44 pm)
Reply |
"Trivial Pursuit"
Thank you. Having completed several
rounds of "Movie Mania" over the weekend, I concluded that the
category of drama is not my strong suit. Romantic comedy, comedy in
general, some adventure, and mostly OLD movies I have a shot at.
See, if I was able to retain things about music, fingerings, that I
can old movie lines, I'd be good at this cello thing. {major sigh}
Instead I am relegated to a position of encyclopedic information on
old Mel Brooks movies, Cary Grant flicks, Dick Van Dyk episodes,
"Ohhhhh ROB!" and the like. Must have been the time in my life I was
watching those with an emptier head, as opposed to how cluttered my
head is now. Whatever. Thanks!
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Lucy
Clifford
Registered User
(1/3/01 6:09:53 pm)
Reply |
Re: The
long view
My father-in-law(!) was very upset
about the whole business. He attended, it would seem, about every du
Pre concert in the UK, he visited her when she was ill, but like
many people found it too painful. However they talked on the phone,
now and again. He has seen in is life many wonderous performances,
and is a recepient of the precious legacies which Bob talks
about.
While he finds this besmirching(?) of the legacy
hurtful, he has another view as well. He has watched an older and
younger sibling die, slowly and painfully - the older as the result
of TB contracted in concentration camp during WWII, and the younger
with an incurable brain tumour.
He can therefore almost
understand the terrible feelings of helplessness, anger and grief,
and guilt, that the rest of the du Pre family must have felt, and
witnessed the victim's own grief and anger at their growing
weakness.
What he finds appalling though is for people to
'cash-in' on their feelings, especially people whom he knows, abeit
distantly. These family tragedies, the anger and despair are not for
the general public, they are a part of family life. He tried not to
'besmirch' the memory of his siblings to their friends, even though
he and the friends saw different sides of these people.
Maybe The Book and The Film brought du Pre to the attention
of others, but in a negative way, and for some, unfortunate peopole,
one that will forever cast a slight stain on her Legacy.
And
so I will now have no more to do with this topic, although I admire
all the contributions, as does my father-in-law, who has read them.
Let us just listen to the music, and wonder at the
brilliance.
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