| Author |
Subject |
BA
Registered User
(1/17/01 3:00:44 am)
Reply |
Beethoven 5
Hearing Ron Leonard's excerpt CD
again the other day has lead me to ponder again the opening theme of
the 2nd movement.
Leonard claims the actual rhythm is
somewhere between a sixteenth and a triplet. His demonstration is
not entirely a satisfactory answer, but it is true that played as a
strict dotted eigth/ sixtenth it seems to sound a little too
'jaunty' to keep the flowing character. Have any of you found a
satisfactory resolution?
What about tempo- does any conductor
(aside the 'authentic' specialists) take it at Beethoven's marking?
I hear it usually played either slow or slower, though I find
Furtwangler's compelling nonetheless.
|
playingfavorites
Registered
User
(1/17/01 10:46:45 am)
Reply |
what do
audition committees want
Anything the conductor wants, of
course! I like Ron Leonard's demonstration. But, how do 8 celli
together do this perfectly? What do audition committees want? I hope
you get answers here, not just more questions like I have to
offer!
|
Jon
Pegis
Registered
User
(1/17/01 2:00:52 pm)
Reply |
Beethoven 5
I'm going to disagree with Ron
Leonard on this one. Every teacher and coach I've had said that the
rhythm in this excerpt must be exact and precise. The real challenge
is to play a legato dotted rhythm--something that is very difficult
to do since your hands cannot influence eachother. If the right hand
is dominant the tone will be smoother but the dreaded triplets may
appear. And if the left hand is too dominant the rhythm will be
precise but the line of the phrase gets chopped up. As for tempo, I
think it's best to play the theme and variations at the same speed
even though a lot of conductors don't do this. I've played this
passage anywhere from 84-92. The faster tempo makes it easier to
avoid running out of bow, but you don't want the theme to sound
rushed. I hope this helps a little--I'm sure you'll get a lot of
opinions on this one!
Jon Pegis
|
Ryan
Selberg .gif)
Registered User
(1/17/01 2:43:58 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Beethoven 5
I'm going to agree with Jon on this
one. There is a very compelling reason that it appears on virtually
every orchestral cello audition, primarily for the reasons Jon
stated. The few candidates who are able to play with a clear rhythm
AND a beautiful legato AND dynamics really stand out quickly as
someone to consider for the job (assuming the rest of the audition
doesn't fall apart).
Ryan
|
David
Sanders
Registered User
(1/17/01 2:54:37 pm)
Reply |
Beethoven 5
I've wondered about the tempo of
this for years at auditions. I've had colleagues tell me that they
vote no if the first variation isn't the same tempo as the theme,
but every time we've played it, the first variation is almost always
faster than the theme. So what's the answer?
I would say to stay
pretty much in the same tempo, but to make it more flowing, which
would probably translate into somewhat, but not a lot,
faster.
|
G
M Stucka
Registered User
(1/17/01 3:38:34 pm)
Reply |
Beethoven 5
Personally, I vote NO on a candidate
who doesn't keep a strict tempo between the theme and subsequent
variations. David's probably right about concert realities,
ESPECIALLY with the current crop of the overly self-indulgent and
un-disciplined maestri at the helm, but I need a barometer of some
sort at auditions to try to tell if a candidate is a potential
"rusher" or not.
Also, as has been stated earlier, the
excerpt CAN be played smoothly, beautifully, and musically, while
maintaining the printed rhythm. Anything less is, in a word,
unacceptable.
|
zambocello
Registered User
(1/17/01 5:36:46 pm)
Reply |
Beethoven 5
Ditto from me: For auditions play
accurate dotted rhythm, legato, soft, in tune, and consistant tempo.
In concerts, play with the section. (And in concerts if you have to
choose between playing with the conductor and playing with the
section, play with the section.)
|
David
Sanders
Registered User
(1/18/01 2:12:36 am)
Reply |
Re:
Beethoven 5
I agree about the current crop of
"self-indulgent and un-disciplined maestri", as well as the many
just plain no-talents.
However, in this case, Solti and Szell
come to mind as two conductors who move the first variation faster
than they do the theme.
BUT, in an audition, it's best to keep as
close to the tempo of the theme as is reasonable, just so the
variation doesn't sound too slow.
I think that Gary will agree
that it's easy enough to tell if someone will be a rusher if the
inner tempo of the variation is not steady.
|
danielemanuel
Registered User
(1/18/01 6:53:18 am)
Reply |
Beeing
a slow rusher
I tend to rush away on things. Is
that a death sin?
I also tend to be bad at playing things fast. I
am bad at doing anything fast (cooking, doing the dishes
etc.).
What is wrong with me?
\Daniel
|
cellofreak2000
Registered User
(1/19/01 5:03:15 pm)
Reply |
Beethoven 5
.....dont forget the dynamics!
(sometimes subito forte, sometimes crescendo on the e-flats
f.i......) Anyway, any serious audition-comitee should be able to
tell a candidate to play it again in a different tempo, if the tempo
is not the one they expect......
|
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
(1/19/01 6:02:25 pm)
Reply
 |
Dynamics
Are there different kinds of sf's
and sfz's in Beethoven. I'm curious to know how Solti or Szell felt
about these in his music.
SF, SFZ, FP and accents. How did
they do these? With time, articulation? Both?
Paul Tseng
My Website
MP3!
|
David
Sanders
Registered User
(1/20/01 2:33:10 am)
Reply |
Re:
Dynamics
Well, I can't speak about Szell,
never having played under him. But Solti used to like his sforzandi
like an explosion.
|
Email This To a
Friend
Topic Commands
(Moderator only)