| Author |
Subject |
kyle
Registered User
(2/17/01 6:03:47 pm)
Reply |
Why....?
Why do they say you should never use
fine tuners with gut strings?
Does this also apply to
synthetic core with windings?
I recently have been searching
for a warmer tone string
than the Larsens were giving me. A man
at Shar
recommended Obligatos, even though I have fine
tuners.
Do I have to worry about a string snapping and taking
out
an eye? Wouldn't fine tuners be easier on a string
than using the
peg? I bought the Obligatos and have
put on the A and D strings.
I like them very much,
but I am worried about this tuner/gut
thing.What will
happen now that I have Obligatos with fine
tuners?
Any input on these matters would be greatly
appreciated!
Thanks!
|
Todd
French 
Moderator
(2/17/01 7:41:11 pm)
Reply
 |
Re:
Why....?
Kyle,
The reason it is not
recommended to use gut or synthetic core strings with fine tuners is
because the loop ring is connected around the core. Being that the
loop ring goes into the fine tuner arm, that is what is moved, and
being that the core is more flexible than the outer wrapping, the
fine tuners pulls and pulls on the soft inner core. The effect is
that the core stretches quite a bit, but since the outer layer
(wrapping) does not, the pitch doesn't change much, yet you are
exerting a lot of pressure on the inner core. This proves to be
quite innefective in tuning the string and wears out the string much
more quickly than with peg tuning.
My recommendation is not
to use fine tuners with gut and synthetic core strings unless you
absolutely have to tune with them.
|
ruthann
Registered User
(2/17/01 8:05:27 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Why....?
As a former gut user, I always
thought that we didn't use fine tuners because ther was no need.
Tune close with the peg, manipulate the string a bit, and there you
are. Same thing goes for synthetics.
I put a rope string on
my cello a year and a half ago becuase I was playing a concerto and
wanted a quick action and a penetrating sound. At that time I also
switched to a tailpiece with built-in fine tuners.
Concerto
has been performed and I'm back to chamber music, so I switched to
Obligatos, still using the tailpiece with the fine tuners. I'm still
more of a peg tuner, but I do occasionally use the fine tuners. So
far everything seems fine. I'll take a closer look tonight to see if
I see any evidence of this separation.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com
|
TerryM
Registered
User
(2/17/01 11:33:45 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Why....?
Part of the reason too, is that the
gut strings have to be wound farther to give the same change in
pitch as steel strings. This is best achieved with the cello peg,
rather than a fine tuner. With steel strings it is much more
difficult to do fine tuning using the pegs. Fine tuners make the job
much easier, unless of course you are using Pegheds. Most fine
tuners do not have the range to tune gut strings.
However, I
have not found this to be problem with Obligatos. You have to turn
the fine tuner more than you do with steel strings, but the fine
tuner works well with the Obligato strings. I have been using
Obligato strings for quite some time now, as I was involved in the
beta testing of the first strings, before they became commercially
available. I think they are great for my cello and the kind of sound
I am trying to get. They are not for everyone though.
My teacher
tried them on his cello and they did not sound as well as his
regular Larsen strings.
Terry
|
kyle
Registered User
(2/18/01 1:32:29 pm)
Reply |
Why....?
This is very informative. I
appreciate this very much.
I do like the sound of these
strings and wish to
keep using them with the fine tuners, if
possible.
Any danger of a string snapping and causing
bodily
injury? (As an aside, has anyone ever had a
string
break while playing?)
I have noticed (and granted
this is only the 2nd day
of the strings being on the cello) that
the fine
tuners on the D string did not have the capacity
to
tune the string, while the A string fine
tuner worked
well.
|
Steve
Drake
Registered
User
(2/18/01 8:08:25 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Why....?
The Obligato A string is actually a
steel string. I tested several formulations of the obligatos during
their development cycle, and they work fine with fine tuners. If
your slots on the bridge are big enough, you can even use the fine
tuners for some small adjustments once the strings get settled.
My MP3's
My Cello
Homepage
|
MaryK
Registered
User
(2/18/01 11:29:58 pm)
Reply
 |
Old
Habits Die Hard!
Even tho the Pegheds have been on my
cello for over a year (as has the Harmonie tailpiece!), I still use
the fine tuners fairly often, making the major adjustments w/the
pegs, and the minor ones w/the fine tuners. Still. But, I don't hate
my pegs anymore! Whatever works, I guess...
MaryK
|
ruthann
Registered User
(2/19/01 9:47:19 am)
Reply |
Re:
Why....?
Oooh, an opening for one of my
favorite stories!
I was playing in the pit for an operetta,
Mozart I think. Big sf at a dramatic moment to be followed by
silence from the pit. I gave that sf a big goose, my tailgut broke
and cello pieces went flying! I think my bridge hit the cellist in
front of me in the back. One string, probably the A, hit me on the
face and left a welt - but no blood! That was during a brief
dalliance with solid steel strings.
My experience with
breaking strings is that it usually happens at the nut or the
bridge. I've never been hit with a breaking string. I wouldn't worry
about bodily injury.
A recently discussed trick, putting a
little pencil lead (graphite) on the bridge groove, may help your
fine tuners work a little better.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com
|
MaryK
Registered
User
(2/19/01 1:35:20 pm)
Reply
|
Getting
Technical - a Couple Questions
Eww, Ruthann, that must've been
quite an experience!
OK, so what's the best thing to do for
your cello if something like that happens? To keep the soundpost
from falling, or other nasty things from happening to your
instrument??
MaryK
|
Corrina
Connor
Moderator
(2/19/01 6:59:10 pm)
Reply |
Ring
for the cellambulance!
Then breath deeply.
Then make
your way quietly from the stage.
Then assess the damage, rectify
sound posts etc.
|
TerryM
Registered
User
(2/19/01 7:28:04 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Getting Technical - a Couple Questions
If a tailgut breaks (it happened to
me once) there is really not much you can do unless you carry a
spare, which I am sure that very few cellists do. It would be best
to put the cello back in its case and get the tailgut replaced, but
also to have the soundpost looked at even if it has not fallen over.
With the sudden release of pressure of the strings, the whole belly
of the cello would have a tendency to flex and this alone could
cause the soundpost to move out of position. The soundpost is shaped
to fit the curvature of the belly and so it really only fits in one
direction, with the side of the post closest to the center being a
bit longer than the side facing the f-hole.
With even a
slight movement a misalignment of the post could occur and it could
now be on a slight angle. If the tension is then put back on the
bridge after replacing the tailgut, the soundpost could be out of
position or worse, turned so that the higher edge is now gouging
into the wood of the belly. A soundpost can also move if your cello
is knocked over or dropped. Just because it has not fallen does not
mean that it has not moved. You can usually, but not always, tell if
there has been significant movement of the soundpost because the
sound of the instrument can be altered.
If the strings are
off and the soundpost is still standing you can take the endpin plug
out and view the alignment of the soundpost. It should be vertical
side to side and front to back. You can't really see both directions
from the f-hole only. I would not recommend doing this unless such
an emergency has occurred. Most soundposts are cut to be just long
enough and with changes in humidity and temperature, releasing the
pressure of all of the strings even slowly, can cause the soundpost
to fall. Soundpost adjustments are usually made with some tension
still on the strings.
So to make a long winded story short,
if your tailgut breaks, take the cello to your repair person and
make sure the soundpost has not moved before replacing the tailgut
and re-stringing the cello.
Terry
|
MaryK
Registered
User
(2/19/01 11:21:18 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Getting Technical - a Couple Questions
Thanks, Terry, that's pretty much
what I'd figured. Guess I was worried about chances of cracks to the
top or back, or the neck collapsing or something, w/the sudden
release of tension from the strings.
MaryK
|
ruthann
Registered User
(2/20/01 9:22:59 am)
Reply |
Re:
Getting Technical - a Couple Questions
And it makes one hell of a big
noise. I pretty much just sat ther, dazed, while people handed be
back bits and pieces that had flown off. Putting the cello back in
the case at the next break was a puzzle - where to put those parts
like the bridge and tailpiece so they would be safe but not harm the
instrument? The cello when to be mended the next day. Got aricores
to replace the solid stell ones that day, too. Had another
performance of the operetta that evening. I don't remember if the
soundpost moved. I do remember that the luthier was very kind and
understanding about having another performance that night. The new
tailgut was not gut but synthetic, as to be less prone to
breakage.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com
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