| Author |
Subject |
RemRem
Registered User
(2/28/01 6:33:56 am)
Reply |
Adults
not worth being tought?
As I currently move to Munich
(haven't found an appartment yet) I checked with the local music
school as I also need a new teacher. Unfortunately they told me they
only accept kids. So if you're over 18 and not already at that
school you have to find a teacher on your own. So for most adults
that would be a conservatory student. I wonder what I may expect
from someone with hardly any teaching experience...
I was pretty
pissed as that music school claimed on thier website that they are
*the* source of musical education for kids *and* adults.
|
Dorie
Straus 
Moderator
(2/28/01 6:57:33 am)
Reply |
Re:
Adults not worth being taught?
Just as with any teacher, there will
be those who are good at it and those who are not. Perhaps the
advantage of a conservatory student might be that he/she is not
burned-out from teaching and won't have a teaching overload. They
might be happy to have the extra money and might be excited to teach
an adult. Could be a good thing!
|
Ellen
G 
Registered User
(2/28/01 8:02:47 am)
Reply |
Re:
Adults not worth being tought?
Sounds like they did you a favor by
rejecting you. I don't know about other places, but in NY there are
an awful lot of people who hold certificates attesting to their
authorization to teach, but whose knowledge about the subject matter
they are teaching is sorely lacking. This scenario suggests to me
that their expertise is working with kids, and secondarily they are
into music on a limited basis, realize the limitations of the
staff.
It's weird, though, because obviously you can have
"kids" that range in age from 4-18, give or take. You can have a
"beginner" ranging in age from 4-99. So can they help a precocious
13-year-old more than they can help a novice adult?
Hmmm...
You're an intermediate player and moving into more
advanced pieces. If someone who can't play the pieces themself is
trying to help you, they're not going to be able to. If a
conservatory student knows more of the ins and outs than a teacher
on this staff, problems they had to conquer to get to where they
are, their experience is more valuable to you. "You need to wam up
with these scales because..." "You need to white out these
fingerings because..." "If you set yourself up this way, this is
what will happen in this passage..."
People who haven't
advanced past a certain level never realize how much more they don't
know! This can really hurt a student who is trying to move around a
cello with greater facility, playing more difficult rhythms,
exercise bow control in more technically demanding passages, and the
teacher hasn't got a clue that what he's teaching ISN'T HELPING. It
is, indeed, less critical to a 9-year-old trying to twinkle.
Too many generalizations and too much subjectivity here,
actually, and I'm bound to step on some toes.
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jekerry
Registered User
(2/28/01 8:24:03 am)
Reply |
go for
a student teacher
The best teacher I've ever had is a
grad student at Eastman. She's so enthusiastic! And respectful! Why
would you want to take lessons from some burnt out over worked
classroom type teacher when you can get lessons from someone that
has new, fresh ideas and is still learning too so understands what
you are going through? Take the gift and find yourself someone who
wants to teach. You might find a great
one.
Best,
Jane
|
me4cello
Registered User
(2/28/01 11:03:57 am)
Reply |
try out
2 or 3..
as others have said already, you
might be pleasantly surprised by the fresh approach of a
conservatory student, if you get the chance try out 2 or 3 and see
if you click with anyone, you'll be helping to support a starving
student too!!
|
RemRem
Registered User
(3/1/01 5:40:02 am)
Reply |
Thanks
all!
Yes, I'll see what teachers I can
find. But I'll also make that music school remove that crap from
their website...
Actually those (public) music schools are pretty
good here in Germany. You can be sure to get a qualified teacher and
the are cheap as the city pays up to 50% of the fees. Those schools
are in every bigger village and up to now I had never heard that
they do not teach adults...
But...maybe...as we all know that 99%
of the kids will become great virtuosos...
|
RobertaJill
Registered User
(3/2/01 4:02:09 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Adults not worth being tought?
I am having trouble finding a cello
teacher, not because they don't think adults are worth teaching, but
because no one wants to teach in the evenings or on Saturdays. And
while there are always college and grad students who accept
students, my concern is that they finish their degrees and leave --
and I am finally looking for someone who will help me build a
program for developing my skills. I am a relatively advanced student
but I have to work 8-5 (to pay for cello lessons, among other
things!)! I found one teacher who will meet with me in the late
afternoon on a day I can leave work about a half hour early -- let's
hope things work out!
Roberta
|
Lucy
Clifford
Registered User
(3/2/01 9:41:51 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Adults not worth being tought?
While I have been a student-teacher,
and taught adults, from my research it is my considered, and Oh, so
humble opinion that if you really want to have a 'greater facility',
and I know that you really DO
find a really great, professional, experienced teacher.
One
of my fellow librarians took up the violin - after spending 18
months with various student and amatuer teachers (with all due
respect!) she was persuaded to ring a top violinist from the BBC
orch, who is renowned as a great teacher for all people. And sure
enough she's playing really well: loves practicing, enthusiastic,
happy, confident to play.
It might cost a bit more, but it is
really worth it.
Make sure that you feel happy with the
teacher. Students are renowned for being flightly, arrogant,
inconsiderate, irregular and inexperienced. If you find a teacher
who is
1) a great player
2) an experienced teacher
3) loves
to teach (and learn!)
you will be much
happier.
|
Ellen
G
Registered User
(3/3/01 8:10:02 am)
Reply |
Re:
Adults not worth being taught?
I think the premise got changed here
somehow.
First choice, all things being equal, is a
professional cellist with fabulous teaching skills. However, in this
case that wasn't an option, which is where the conservatory student
came in. In fact in MANY cases that is not an option, either due to
availability, finances, logistics. The amateur cellist population is
really spread out.
Anyway, there are people with great
facility on the instrument who cannot communicate well and therefore
do not make good teachers. There are some people with good
communication skills, but are not as highly trained on their
instruments as they think they are, and can really hamper a student
cellist in the long run. Much advanced repertoire is performed with
excruciatingly poor technique, and because they don't know it's
poor, it is perpetuated in their students. There are some excellent
advanced dedicated students who are far enough ahead of the students
they are teaching that they can, in many instances, do more good
than harm.
Anyway, it's all personal. I live one place, have
certain things available to me, my own expectations, a background
and level of play which is NOT conservatory. That already puts me in
a different world from anyone who has been a conservatory student,
or a former professional. I am extremely fond of my teacher, but I
have learned a heck of a lot from another cellist I study with
infrequently who is operating on a totally different plane, can
manage to isolate problem areas and dispel them with a movement and
a few sentences. If this were available to me on a regular basis,
sure, I'd have progressed faster. But we have to work with our own
realities and make the best of them.
|
RemRem
Registered User
(3/8/01 6:22:22 am)
Reply |
Update
As one needs an official permission
to put something on the conservatory BB and they are only available
when I'm at work I put my request in the newspaper. Wonder who'll
reply...
Anyway, it still makes me sick that they only accept
adults for that music school when no kids show up. It's so
discouraging that they tell me I'm not worth as much as a kid who
might even be forced by the parents to play an instrument. I love to
play the cello and I feel that I have the same right to have a
qualified teacher as a kid
has...
|
vsteele
Registered User
(3/8/01 9:38:25 am)
Reply |
teachers for adults
I ran into the same problem here in
the States when looking for a high level teacher. I ended up with a
graduate student and she was not much better than I was and kept
cancelling my lessons.
Luckily, after a year I was
transferred to another city and now I have one of the best teachers
in the area. I make her life easier by leaving work early once a
week to take a lesson at the school. She makes my life easier by not
only teaching me with great skill and professionalism, but involving
me with musical events at the school as if I was a
student.
Things will work out, just keep looking (and
practicing)
|
Bobbie
Registered User
(3/8/01 10:22:35 am)
Reply |
Re:
Update
I've been lucky in finding two fine
teachers. The first of these, however, says that she has had so many
problems with adult students that she doesn't like to take them.
Most adults are gung-ho at the beginning and she adapts to their
special needs (works schedules, physical problems, etc) and then
they quit before they get going or they never practice because they
are too busy, etc, etc. Yes, kids do that too, but at least there
there is a parent who pushes a little.
Now, I know all of us
here are different and did NOT quit. But I think probably a lot of
teachers have had similar experiences.
|
cellisstra
Registered User
(3/17/01 11:02:09 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Adults not worth being tought?
I am being taught by a college
student and find her enthusiasm infectious. She is prepared to take
risks in letting me attempt what I like, despite being too difficult
for me, as she knows that I am much more motivated to practise what
I like. And I am getting there!
Because her own learning
experience is fresh so is her teaching. Recently I met someone who
started at the same age (46) that I did, and had to try four
professional teachers before she could find someone to take her!
Give me my college student any time!
|
RemRem
Registered User
(3/19/01 3:49:39 am)
Reply |
Re:
Adults not worth being tought?
Well, so far I got one phone call
from a cello student who considered teaching me. She obviously
didn't think it was neccesary to take the bubble gum out of her
mouth while talking to me on the phone...Now I'm calling the music
schools in the villages around Munich. The cello teacher of one
school is going to call me to arrange a lesson...sounds much better
to me.
|
yesipractice
Registered User
(3/19/01 3:54:39 pm)
Reply |
lucky
in Berkeley
I started cello lessons just a
little over a year ago. My first couple of lessons were with a woman
who used the basement of a music store for teaching. We didn't click
at all. She was very rigid and didn't know what to do with me
(probably figuring, what kind of nut starts cello at age 50).
Anyway, I then found a most FABULOUS teacher and have been taking my
weekly lessons with him since. My progress is steady, I'm having a
great time and I believe this is the very best investment I've made
ever. It's harder than I ever imagined but I will persevere. A great
teacher makes a big difference.
|
Cellospieler
Registered User
(3/23/01 5:58:13 pm)
Reply |
Move
here RemRem!
It's been a while since we've
chatted Rem Rem, but having spent a lot of time in Germany, I have
been aware of this attitude, and apparently it is very prevelant in
Deutschland across all of the arts. There is no way I could have
begun cello as an adult in Germany and been in 2 orchastras, a
string quartet and a cello quintet within three years! They say
there: "Why start as an adult--you'll never make anything of
yourself." It is a common and unfortunate ideology.
I have at
my disposal a list of a dozen cello teachers, and have had lessons
as late as 9 p.m.! Here, anything goes! Come to the Vereinegten
Staaten, you're cello learning will never suffer!!
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RemRem
Registered User
(3/24/01 4:58:57 pm)
Reply |
hey
Cellospieler!
Nice to hear from you!
Anyway, I
had no problems in the area where I lived until a few weeks ago. No
problems finding a teacher or with their attitude.
Have I told
you about the teacher who called me a few days ago? He talked to me
on the phone for 15 minutes without stopping. Anyway, he seemed
pretty oldfashioned (numbering every single position while my last
teacher just wanted me to know where I can find a certain note) and
I'm sure he would have been horrified by the music I like
(Apocalyptica). His lesson were cheap though (25$ for 1 h). I'll
find a better one :-)
|
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