| Author |
Comment |
Corrina
Connor
Moderator
Posts: 744
(8/30/01 3:07:56 am)
Reply
|
On male and
female teachers
On the subject of teachers, does anybody here find that they prefer
to have a male or female teacher?????
Do you find it easier
to relate to a man or a woman in a lesson situation, and
why?
At the moment I have a female violin teacher, and a male
cello teacher. However, I am thinking seriously about changing
violin teachers next year, due to various differences (that is, if I
pass this year). I think that maybe I should try a male violin
teacher. I'm not sure why, but I think that I might manage better.
Both my previous violin teachers have been women, and I've
got along with them very well. However, at my school, all the female
teachers are very short and petite, and I am very tall, and kind of
strongish looking (Junoesque????
 ). They seem to
be rather intimidated, and I find that 'looking down' on them makes
me feel very awkward, and somewhat overgrown, and
uncomfortable.
Also, at the moment (in a musical way, that is
 ) I seem to be
able to to get along better with male people. . . who knows
why......
Rest assured, I'm not implying that men are better
violinists than women, so don't start crying sexism. I know better
than that since the infamous female conductors
thread.
Anyway, if anybody has any learned opinions on this
topic, don't hesitate to reply, or email, if you fear being accused
of narrow mindedness
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sarah
schenkman
Registered
User
Posts: 464
(8/30/01 11:21:07
am)
Reply
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Let's hear it
for ignorance and prejudice!
(This message was left blank)
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MsCheryl
Registered
User
Posts: 263
(8/30/01 11:30:16
am)
Reply
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Who cares what
one's personal preferences are?
.... or "Do you prefer chocolate or vanilla ice cream?"
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zambocello
Registered User
Posts: 747
(8/30/01 3:14:32 pm)
Reply
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I'm not so quick
to criticise.
More than anything, "chemistry" is important to succesful
teacher/student relations. It would be naive to think that mixing or
matching gender is not part of that chemistry.
Whether we
like it or not, we don't live in a genderless society. (Look at how
the experts and special interest advocates are scrambling to explain
today's news; that the gap between boys and girls SAT scores is
widening.)
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Ernie77
Registered User
Posts: 41
(8/30/01 4:41:16 pm)
Reply
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Unfair
Calling someone's open and honest thoughts on this suject matter,
prejudice and ignorant, is really uncalled for, mean spirited, and
not true.
We all interact differently with different people,
whether the differences are sex, age, race, height, body weight,
odor, hair quantity, etc..... This phenomenom is not unique to
cellists.
Lets all be more open and tolerant to other peoples
opinions on this board.
Ernest
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rosebud499
Registered User
Posts: 7
(8/30/01 5:16:45 pm)
Reply
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Zambocello, as
usual, has got it....
1. No, we absolutely DO NOT live in a genderless society. I
actually have learned this best, unfortunately, by taking cello
lessons.
2. Chemistry IS a very important thing for the
success of the student and the teacher. (should be a DUH
statement)
The thing is, chemistry isn't determined by
gender. There are different kinds of male personalities and
different kinds of female personalities. From my experience, since
one's personality translates into one's cello playing (and thus
one's teaching), it is very important to have experience being a
student of teachers of both sexes and many personalities.
Ultimately, you need a teacher who motivates and inspires you,
enables you to keep your own original motivation, and whom you
trust.
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Bobbie
Registered User
Posts: 629
(8/30/01 5:26:13 pm)
Reply
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Re: On male and
female teachers
I think that is a very good question. Rapport with a teacher is
very important, and the kind of rapport one has with a teacher of
the opposite sex is often different. It's like the question of
whether men and women can really be just friends, and how the
friendships are different. The relationship between a young woman
and a thirtyish- male cello teacher is likely to have very different
undertones than one between the same young woman and a woman old
enough to be her mother, for example. Which is better, and how you
choose, I don't know. I've never had to choose as the only good
cello teachers I've had have been women near my own age.
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Corrina
Connor
Moderator
Posts: 745
(8/30/01 7:06:24 pm)
Reply
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Re: Who cares
what one's personal preferences are?
I wanted to know if anybody did have any personal preferences!  I think that it
is quite important.
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MsCheryl
Registered
User
Posts: 264
(8/30/01 8:13:06
pm)
Reply
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Explanation
I certainly was not saying that this does not matter for each
individual - in fact, I was saying that this is definitely an
individual thing - each person has his own ideas - and one person's
feeling on this subject should have absolutely no bearing on another
person's feelings on this matter. So there really is nothing to
discuss - ie. it would be like us discussing which is better -
chocolate or vanilla - it is completely subjective.
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sarah
schenkman
Registered
User
Posts: 468
(8/30/01 8:23:25
pm)
Reply
|
Re: Let's hear
it for ignorance and prejudice!
You start with preferring male over female, preferring white rather
than black, or maybe European over Asian. You can say it's a matter
of chemistry or whatever - but when you classify people according to
gender, race or whatever, it boils down to prejudice.
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Corrina
Connor
Moderator
Posts: 747
(8/30/01 9:08:01 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Explanation
As I said, I was only interested in finding out IF what other
people's preferences were. Maybe there isn't anything to discuss,
but the same thing applies to people arguing about whether Starker
is a 'cold player'. If it comes to that, why bother discussing
anything?
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Corrina
Connor
Moderator
Posts: 748
(8/30/01 9:11:41 pm)
Reply
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Re: Let's hear
it for ignorance and prejudice!
I am sorry to say this, but your post makes no sense at all, even
less than mine. If I said that I preferred having a female teacher,
would that be prejudiced as well? By the same token, is saying, for
example, that white people aren't as good at blues music prejudiced
as well?
I don't think that I said that male teachers were
superior. I just said that at the moment that was where I felt more
comfortable. Maybe I need a female Asian teacher???????
Who,
pray, did I classify?
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Daniel
Ortbals 
Registered
User
Posts: 216
(8/30/01 9:33:22
pm)
Reply
|
Re: Let's hear
it for ignorance and prejudice!
I think Corrina really tried to make it clear that this was not in
any way a sexist post. Okay, the big uproar the last time about
male/female conductors, yes, maybe she didn't clarify at the
beginning. This time, let's not be so bloodthirsty.
Her point
was not to ask whether male teachers are better teachers than
females, or vice versa. She just wanted to take a poll on what
people prefer and why. Perhaps Cheryl is right that there's really
nothing to 'discuss,' but how many 'irrelevant' discussions have we
gone through on this board? Perhaps every third thread, maybe every
fourth? I don't see any harm in this sort of thing.
Okay,
classifying people according to gender, race, etc....
If you mean
acknowledging that there are, in fact, men and women, or also
acknowledging the fact that there are people of different races in
this world, then you are dead wrong about the prejudice remark. Now,
when you start assigning qualities that you believe are strictly the
result of their being a man or woman or being a certain color of
skin, then you get into the territory of prejudice. Also, saying "I
don't see people in terms of color" is just as bad. If you are
afraid to refer to a black man as a black man, then immediately you
are signaling that inside you already believe him to be 'different'
and you don't want to "offend" him. THAT is prejudice.
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rosebud499
Registered User
Posts: 8
(8/31/01 12:58:47 am)
Reply
|
sorry to get
back up on the soapbox....
but this topic is way too important to me.
Corrina, I don't
think you are prejudiced at all, rather asking a very thoughtful
question. It could very well be that you do better with male
teachers, but not because you are somehow predjuced.
HOWEVER, the bigger questions are these: Do I relate to this
person? Does this person relate to me and my cellistic problems? Is
this person a positive and helpful influence on me and my musical
development?
Choosing a teacher is like choosing friends, only a
teacher is more responsible for your well-being than your friends,
inherently. You always want good influences in your life. And I'm
sure you know by now what a formidable influence a teacher can be on
you.
I don't think that you should switch teachers just because
a teacher is one gender or another. If you find a male teacher that
seems better in the above respects than your past female teacher(s),
great. It may or may not be because the teacher is male. Deeper
questions about student-teacher relations should be answered first,
in my opinion.
Lots of luck.
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Nicholas
Anderson
Registered
User
Posts: 113
(8/31/01 2:41:04
am)
Reply
|
Re: On male and
female teachers
It's very risky to make generalizations about this kind of thing.
However, I'll go out on a limb with one observation, from my many
years of deep involvement with these issues. Even though this is
easily misunderstood in any case, I'll preface it by saying that
it's *only* a generality, with notable exceptions; and that's it's
not something intrinsic to a person's nature, only a cultural
phenomenon - as I will explain further.
In my experience,
women are *usually* better and more effective teachers than men, and
for one reason only. They are *usually* more oriented toward the
nurturing of people, and the support of growth; and given that those
are essential factors in successful pedagogy, women are better able
to integrate them with the other ingredients of cello teaching than
men are. I think this is the only difference that gender makes in
the situation. I don't believe that this is due to any of the
biological differences that exist between men and women. It's purely
a matter of cultural "brainwashing," and ingrained social
expectations that are inculcated from earliest childhood. Men are
every bit as capable of nurturing as women, but you almost never see
it. Men need to discover and learn to express the softer, more
feminine side of themselves, and see that it's not a threat to their
masculinity. This, of course, is like pulling teeth; in the
male-dominated, paternalistic world culture in which we live, it's
just about the most difficult thing there is. But it's equally true
that the ability to contact the dark side, the feminine principle,
the realm of emotions and physical sensations, embodies the missing
dimension in Art itself on a global level. Fortunately, as I said,
there are authentic examples of people who are *exceptions* in
having broken through these gender-role barriers, in art and in
teaching. This is just further evidence that better things are
possible.
-Nick
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Corrina
Connor
Moderator
Posts: 750
(8/31/01 3:51:40 am)
Reply
|
regarding Nick's
post.
Could this go along with my hypothothis that while there are
definitely less male instrument teachers around (certainly in this
country), they are generally really good? Not that I'm saying
(again) that they are *better*, but that they are still really good
quality.
Anyway, another fascinating post from your good
self.
I have found this thread very interesting, and it
would have been good to have more opinions.
Still, a lot has
been revealed
While
this isn't cello related, I have found this year that I've made a
lot of new friends (music students that is), and of the ones who are
my good friends, 4 of the 6 are male. And, that is just what they
are - - companionable friends, with whom I am very comfortable, and
can discuss life's deeper meaning. . . generally related to Late
Romantic Music and the Second Viennese School. . .
Maybe I am a
person that gravitates towards finding more in common with males.
Who knows. Maybe it is just a passing 'phase'. Hmmm, I must think
about it.
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drcello
Registered User
Posts: 582
(8/31/01 6:11:36 am)
Reply
| Edit
|
Corrina is
right...
She also likes Mahler and Rumpole! She is definitely a person with
good taste. I remember how I first discovered Mahler's 4th symphony,
definitely a great impetus in my life as a music
appreciator.
Male or female teacher -- makes no difference.
Find a teacher that makes you learn, and who is a genuine caring
person.
Marshall C. St. John
drcello@vei.net
Wayside Presbyterian Church
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Laura
Wichers
Moderator
Posts: 1107
(8/31/01 6:35:23 am)
Reply
|
Re: On male and
female teachers
The best cello teachers (and come to think of it, science and math,
too) I've had the privilege of working with have all been men. I
think all the comments that people have made about personality being
important are very good. But I don't think personality match is the
crucial element. The crucial element, to me at least, is that
whomever I study with have the ability to describe/explain things in
more than one way. I won't understand a particular concept from
their usual explanation; however these teachers were all able to
explain the concept from a different perspective such that I could
understand it.
One of the best cello teachers I've worked
with is not a very vocal person. At most lessons very little is
said. What ends up happening is a lot of demonstration, and he asks
me how in the world I could figure out exactly what he wanted just
from demonstration. Well, I'm a visual person and his demonstrations
were easy for me to "get." The same might not be true for another
student.
Laura
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sarah
schenkman
Registered
User
Posts: 471
(8/31/01 7:01:45
am)
Reply
|
Re: On male and
female teachers
Corrina - Sorry if my posts seemed harsh. The point I was trying to
make is I think it is better to treat the teachers as individuals
instead of as members of some group. I wish you all the best and
hope you find just the teacher you want.
Sarah
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bridge
.gif)
Registered
User
Posts: 170
(8/31/01 10:27:13
am)
Reply
|
Re: On male and
female teachers
I hate controversy. So I didn't jump in at first. I also haven't
read past the first few posts (for the same reason). The first
sentence indicates something. I have issues, baggage, whatever you'd
like to call it.
It shouldn't matter, but it does. I respond
to different types of people differently. I've had two teachers. One
male and one female. They've both been great (and
different).
My therapist on the other hand. Gotta be female.
You've never met my step dad!
However, I do agree, although
not as harshly (bluntly?), with the what flavor ice of cream
analogy. I mean, I think we all know that we respond differently to
different types of teachers and it's pretty hard to help someone
decide what kind of teacher they like. I mean you do or you don't.
There's really nothing to discuss (or chat, or post) about?
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1509
(8/31/01 2:32:46 pm)
Reply
 |
Nick
That was an intersting post, Nick. I agree with you that there are
many men who aren't very nurturing and that there are some who are.
I happen to believe that I'm a very nuturing individual (at least I
know that my students and my loved ones think so.)
While it
might be true that we live in a paternalistic society and it doesn't
encourage men to find that balance, what about women? Are men simply
more stereotypical than women?
There are exceptions to every
generalization, but don't you think that there are things that many
WOMEN need to work towards for better balance (just as men need to
get in touch with their "nurturing" side more?)
My point is
that the cultural brainwashing has effected both genders in our
society and both genders have work to do.
As for my response
to this thread. My first teacher was a female teacher and she was a
terrific teacher. She helped me dive into music and helped me
develope a passion for the cello. That fire in my belly was already
in there but she fanned the flames and exposed me to more and more
music. I didn't learn that much from her technically. My next
teacher was Male and he taught me very systematic technique. That
was JUST what I needed at the time.
The next couple of
teachers all happened to be male too. but what made them great
teachers had nothing to do with their genders or personalities or
chemistry. I've had teachers with whom I've had all different kinds
of chemistry with. What made them a good teacher was that they were
able to identify what I needed and effectively communicate what I
needed to do to improve. I've seen both Male and female teachers do
this. I daresay that even if the chemistry was awful, as long as the
teacher could do the latter, then it was benefical studying with
him/her.
The only thing I can see is that if you as a student
are more or less comfortable with a male or female teacher, it might
affect how you perceive your lessons. It might get in the way of
learning from a good teacher or it might smooth over your time with
a bad teacher. Either way, it's about the student's reaction, not
the gender of the teacher.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Free Cello
Music!
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