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zambocello
Registered User
Posts: 735
(8/17/01 2:28:28 am)
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Eisenberg's
book.
My copy of Maurice Eisenberg's "Cello Playing of Today," which I
bought on eBay, arrived recently. What a great book, and what
memories come back with it. When I was a young student I borrowed my
teacher's copy (it was already out of print in the 70s, I think) and
not only learned a lot about cello technique, but learned a bit of
how to understand and describe cello technique. I especially
remember that the 100s of examples really piqued my interest in the
cello repertoire. "How and why would composers write passasges like
these?" I remember wondering. I was prompted to seek out and hear a
lot of repertoire that I ordinarily wouldn't have been exposed to
for quite some time (being just a junior-high punk.)
Whew, I
must be getting old, getting nostalgic and all that. Plus, movies I
saw as a kid are now being remade! (We recently saw Planet of the
Apes.)
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TerryM
Registered
User
Posts: 509
(8/17/01 8:22:58
am)
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Re: Eisenberg's
book.
I bought this book back in the sixties when I first started cello
lessons and I still have my copy. It does contain a lot of good
information and many examples, especially for more advanced players.
I too, like the way it uses a lot of excerpts from the cello
repertoire to illustrate specific bowing and fingering principles,
rather than strictly pedagogical exercise routines.
One
thing that it does advocate is the use of a fairly heavy percussive
left hand, which I believe Casals was in favor of and I believe
Eisenberg was a pupil of Casals, was he not? My teacher at that time
used to have me play full passages, without bowing, articulating
notes solely by finger percussion. It is a habit that I have found
hard to break and my present teacher is constantly telling me to
play with less force in my left hand. But on the whole, you are
right, it is a book full of great insights and many musical
examples. Watch out that one of your students doesn't borrow it on a
semi-permanent basis. :)
Terry
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ashley
Registered User
Posts: 49
(8/17/01 5:15:02 pm)
Reply
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The "Percussive"
Left Hand...
It's funny you should mention a percussive left hand, TerryM.
...Well, maybe it isn't really that funny  , it's just
that I was thinking about this today, having never really given it
much thought. What WOULD be the benefit of playing with a *heavy*
left hand? It's not in the music, and I don't see how hearing a big
"plop" in middle of a phrase would be very musical! So what's the
point? Maybe it's really obvious, but I've never thought about it
before and would like to hear your previous teacher's reason for
advocating a *ploppy* left hand 
Thanks for the name of the book, guys. I'll have to see if I
can find it at the library or something....
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playingfavorites
Registered
User
Posts: 127
(8/17/01 9:43:05
pm)
Reply
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gut strings
required more articulation?
I'm speculating that Casals, or at least those from whom he drew
influence, would have had to articulate the fingers more
energetically because of gut strings. Could this be an atavistic
impulse in otherwise modern technic?
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ashley
Registered User
Posts: 51
(8/17/01 10:10:06 pm)
Reply
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O-o-o-o-oh......
Okay, that answer's good enough for me. Thanks! 
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ruthann
Registered
User
Posts: 548
(8/21/01 11:35:16
am)
Reply
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Re: Eisenberg's
book.
This book was a required text when I was in college in the 70's. I
agree that it has lots of useful info. I was also taught the
purcussive left hand technique (while playing on bare gut strings)
by my first teacher. It came in hand a couple weeks back - the
section coach of our festival orchestra wanted it during a pp
section for clarity of sound.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com |
ashley
Registered User
Posts: 55
(8/21/01 11:30:34 pm)
Reply
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Re: Eisenberg's
book.
I have another question about this "percussive left hand" thing.
When you play with a rather substantial *plop* on gut strings, is it
as audible as the same amount of force on synthetic strings??? I've
never played on gut strings before, so I just don't know these
things
.
Thanks!
PS, Where can I find a copy of this book? I
looked around on the web but couldn't find anything...
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ruthann
Registered
User
Posts: 552
(8/22/01 11:26:17
am)
Reply
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Re: Eisenberg's
book.
Not plop, but snap. Do you hear the same amount on steel or
synthetic as gut? Don't know. But you can hear it. I used to play on
gut, now use synthetic, and I can hear it. Your milage may
vary.
The book is apparently out of print. Others out there
can give you some sources to look into for out of print books.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com |
JuilliardRock
Registered User
Posts: 3
(8/31/01 12:37:15 am)
Reply
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Re: Eisenberg's
book.
Casals doesn't advocate a heaviness of the left hand but rather, as
some have mentioned, a percussive action of the fingers coming down
hard and releasing from the string with equal speed. The reason has
less to do with gut/synthetic strings than with the fact that clean,
clear ARTICULATION, as important in the left hand as in the bow,
produces equally an clear sound. In a slow, soft passage, it's not
as important since the cello has plenty of time to speak, but just
try playing anything quick, jumping around or crossing strings, and
see what happens if you do it with a soft, wishy-washy left hand.
All the great players do this to some extent, regardless of their
hand position.
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ashley
Registered User
Posts: 61
(9/1/01 12:42:22 am)
Reply
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audible left
hand
Well, the thing that interested me about this subject most was the
audibility of this "plop"... or "snap," as the case may be. Is it
not possible to articulate clearly without hearing all the
fingerwork? Or is it even worth worrying about???
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JuilliardRock
Registered User
Posts: 5
(9/1/01 2:00:41 pm)
Reply
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Re: audible left
hand
It seems to me that the only way to have a clear, clean
articulation in the left hand is with the firm, percussive action
which we are discussing. And as for audibility, the only person who
really hears it is the player...the sound that carries into the hall
is the articulation, not the snap of the finger.
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ashley
Registered User
Posts: 62
(9/1/01 3:39:58 pm)
Reply
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Re: audible left
hand
Okay, well, that's good to know that the audience can't hear
everything (I guess...). It's hard to know what they can hear when
you're the one performing!!
Anyways, I have heard this articulate
LH on recordings (for instance, Rostropovich's recording of the Bach
Suites). But maybe this is just due to the microphones which are
very close to the instruments in the recording studios...? And maybe
a live audience wouldn't even hear it?
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Corrina
Connor
Moderator
Posts: 756
(9/3/01 11:03:16 pm)
Reply
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Rostropovich's
left hand
I have the video of him playing Bach, and you can hear his fingers!
There is no actual slap or pop, or plop, or snap, but you can sort
of feel the sound.
I used to wonder what the point of the
percussive left hand was, but now playing in orchestras I realise
that it is important for articulation as a section.
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
Posts: 1515
(9/4/01 4:33:54 pm)
Reply
 |
Re:
Rostropovich's left hand
The percussive quality of the left hand is hard to discuss
objectively. Corrina, you mentioned that you don't hear Slava's
fingers slapping down on the fingerboard yet you can feel the sound.
That's an excellent way to put it.
On the other hand, you can
definitely hear Starker and some other cellists slapping their
fingers down. Is one method clearer than the other? I think that
both the finger slapping Starker and the non-slapping Slava sound
incredibly clear. The most important thing is that they achieve that
clear articulation of the left hand.
Now I don't know about
the slapping of the finger on the fingerboard method. Obviously it
works well for some. For me, it caused me a lot of tension. Perhaps
I was doing it wrong?
But the way Rostropovich achieves
clarity is using the weight of his arm and having it balance
directly into the finger that is playing. You rarely see him hold
down more than one finger at a time.
Think about this
analogy (funny as it may be). You are standing up on two feet. You
pick up your left foot and now you are balancing on your right foot.
What happens when you put the right foot down while at the same time
you pick up the left foot (which you were previously standing on)?
The entire weight that was balanced on your right foot shifts over
to your left. The left foot comes down with all the weight of your
body. You don't need to use any muscle strength for your foot to
strike the floor. The amount of pressure (isn't it measured in PSI?)
hitting the ground is factored in by the weight of your body. Your
leg muscles in the foot that's coming down are not being used in any
strenuous way.
This is what happens with your arms and
fingers. The fingers are analogous to your feet and legs, your left
hand and arm are analogous to your entire body. When you transfer
fingers, the finger will come down with the weight of your entire
arm/hand and you don't have to use any muscle strength. The relaxed
muscles in this technique will make for more endurance and easier
motion (especially when playing fast.)
It's hard to describe
without showing you. But the results, you have already witnessed and
described very well.
I'm sure it's possible (for Starker and
others, obviously) to play with percussive, string/fingerboard
slapping technique. I just find the natural weight method much more
efficient and easier on my hands. PLUS, I find the fingerboard
slapping sound most annoying!
Paul Tseng
My Website
Free Cello
Music!
|
Corrina
Connor
Moderator
Posts: 757
(9/4/01 6:47:46 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Rostropovich's left hand
I don't like the slap, where you can hear the string hit the
fingerboard. My teacher prefers to liken it to a bounce, where the
fingerboard 'gives' ever so slightly beneath your finger, so that
there is no slap, or snap. If you imagine this image it prevents
slapping and snapping.
Regarding the shifts in weight - I
practice a Dotzauer etude every day (no. 32 in the Schroeder book, I
think). Anyway, it's descending scale passages in 1st pos. By
practicing it slow and fast one can feel shifts in weight, and
reduce tension.
Corrina
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Daniel
Ortbals
Registered
User
Posts: 222
(9/4/01 8:09:38
pm)
Reply
 |
Balance
I know this doesn't have to do with anything really (what do I say
that EVER has anything to do with anything?), but Paul your analogy
about balancing on one foot reminded me of this...
I think
it's kind of amusing when analogies sort of collide. That is, the
same (or very similar) analogy is used to demonstrate contradicting
situations. Here's my example (I find it amusing; I'm like that). I
used to like to take my thumb off of the fingerboard when vibrating
in thumb position. One teacher asked flat out "Why in the world do
you want to play like that?" She then used the analogy of "Your
thumb and third finger need to be like your legs when you stand;
equal distribution of weight, balance, flexible, etc." Anyway, it
makes sense, and I since stopped that little habit.
Well,
recently I played for a different teacher and was trying to be very
conscious about my thumb and third finger balance, and at one part
in the piece he told me I need to basically 'throw' my weight and
balance onto the third finger to make it more expressive, thus
lifting everything else off of the fingerboard (he didn't mean 'all
the time', just for places like that), and he said "you wouldn't
walk like THIS (and he proceeded to walk while dragging one foot
behind him)."
Anyway, I find it kinda funny. It's probably
one of those 'you had to be there' kind of things. Though, in this
case, it's more like "it's funny if you're ME." 
Dan
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