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RobertPlaysCello
Registered User
Posts: 10
(8/28/01 3:03:52 pm)
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What are
conductors for?
Reading another thread here about conductors made me finally
curious enough to ask a question that's bothered me for years. What
exactly do conductors do?!!? What makes a good one good and a bad
one bad? Why can't the musicians just organize themselves?
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CelloBass
Registered User
Posts: 73
(8/28/01 5:02:05 pm)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
A bad conductor tells the double bass section: 'Too loud, you are
always playing too loud!" A good conductor tells them, "more, more,
I want to hear the basses!" And a typical conductor? He doesn't know
why they have those big cellos in the background... 
Horst
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David
Sanders 
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User
Posts: 659
(8/28/01 9:59:07
pm)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
As I've said many times before, if you've had a great conductor,
and then have one that's not as great, you realize just how
important a conductor is.
The conductor shapes and times the
music. The players play the notes, but the conductor makes the
music. Of course, when there's a long solo line in a wind or string
or other instrument, the player is making the music as well, and a
great conductor will give the soloist a lot of freedom. But the
overall result is in the hands of the conductor.
You might
look at a conductor and wonder what he's doing or how the players
are following him. Often the best conductors don't have the greatest
beat or stick technique, but they have an inner sense of rhythm that
the players can feel.
When an orchestra plays without a
conductor, like Orpheus, you still have a leader, generally the
concertmaster, who will take on the role of conductor.
David
Sanders
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 Steve
Drake
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User
Posts: 444
(8/28/01 10:57:30
pm)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
Musicians play while the conductor waves his/her arms around. When
the conductor stops waving his/her arms, the musicians stop playing.
I was going to add some useful information that sounded very
knowledgeable, but the above is basically it.
Actually,
sometimes the musicians do organize. There used to be a rather well
known conductor in the area who was terrible, but would give
terrific concerts, but it was a sham - all the musicians wouldn't
follow him, but instead follow the concertmaster. We would go
through the motions of following him in the rehearsals, which were a
disaster, and then ignore him in the concerts. I think he was on to
this, but was very diplomatic about it.
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zambocello
Registered User
Posts: 742
(8/28/01 10:57:52 pm)
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Exactly so,
David
But you gave such a good and genuine answer so soon after the
thread was started. It kind of takes the wind out of the sails for
the "Top Ten Things a Conductor is Good For" repliers! 
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ashley
Registered User
Posts: 58
(8/28/01 11:24:15 pm)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
There's one thing I don't understand about conductors... or at
least, conducting. What exactly is good "stick technique"?!? I mean,
it just doesn't make any sense. Even I could grab a stick and wave
it around... 
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David
Sanders
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Posts: 660
(8/29/01 12:23:38
am)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
It must be harder than it looks, right?
It's really not a matter
of waving a stick around. It's a matter of making the music flow
through your body into the stick and out into the orchestra.
A
good stick technique would be one that is very acurate and correct,
with all the beats in the right place, and very easy for the players
to follow.
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Corrina
Connor
Moderator
Posts: 742
(8/29/01 1:08:48 am)
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and don't forget
the left hand
while cellists generally sit 'a dextra' of the maestro, first
violinists don't, and occasionally it is tricky to see the beat.
Also, it is easy to be distracted by what the conductor's left hand
is doing. Some conductors use it as an 'interpretive device', and
hopefully to point out complicated cues to the violas, and use the
appropriate gestures to shape the music. Unfortunately, some use
theirs as a kind of back-up right hand, which thrashes away,
fractionally behind the right hand. Very confusing.
However,
there are many conductors who have a lovely left hand technique. I
particularly like watching Matthis (sp?) Bamert's left hand.
Because we have to take conducting as part of a first year
paper, I'm now very interested in conducting, and have taken to
sitting behind, and then in front of the conductor (in the choir
stalls) when I'm attending concerts.
ps: in case anybody is
curious, in our half year test, I got 90% for 'conducting' a tape of
a Bartok piece called "Change of Time", and 75% for the other
piece!
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Tracie
Price 
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User
Posts: 600
(8/29/01 12:07:35
pm)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
It's much harder than it looks, that's for sure. Which probably
explains why there are so many bad conductors out there.
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Sasha
A M
Registered
User
Posts: 62
(8/29/01 2:21:57
pm)
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it is very
difficult profession
hello!
besides playing cello, i have taken conducting
lessons about six years now. it is really a lot harder than it looks
like, and there are so many bad conductors around, that its even
more difficult to understand. there are some good books about it:
"compleat conductor" by gunther schuller and another, called
"composers advocate". also i recommend reading lebrechts "maestro
myth".
in short, conductor is like a chamber music professor
who knows everything about this piece and this music style, and
teaches players how to play it. but he must also be a superb
musician to get the right emotion to every second of music. the job
begins with the score. if it is mozart, you should know a great deal
of mozarts music, not only orchestral, and a lot of classical music.
and in order to avoid misinterpretations you must also know baroque
style and classical style - to know how it shouldnt sound!
a
good conductor makes a desicion about every detail of the music: how
to play certain rhythms, how long notes, how to articulate, what
harmonies stress, what is important to hear at any moment (all is
important!)... hopefully his decisions are informend and not
improvised.
this is about musicality and knowledge of music.
then there is rehearsal technique, knowing by experience what is
important to rehearse and what should be left as is, knowing what
are effective words to get the right results. how to motivate horn
players who have only rests and half notes, not to mention
timpanist...
stick technique saves a lot of time, because if
you can clearly show how it should sound, then you dont need to talk
so much. and last thing, but not least, is the emotional involvement
in concert, but also in rehearsals. how to inspire musicians to grab
the nnnnnnoooooooowwww, as leif segerstam says.
i have
learned a lot of this profession in lessons and courses, but there
is still more to learn.
sasha
p.s. tomorrow im
conducting bachianas brasileiras n: 5
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RobertPlaysCello
Registered User
Posts: 12
(8/29/01 3:47:58 pm)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
These are great replies. Thank you! So I gather from everybody that
the conductor harmonizes the group. In other words, each musician
just concentrates on their part and the conductor makes sure that
the parts pull together into a larger work of music.
Can
someone go into more detail about specifically what a good conductor
does? How do they physically "communicate their sense of inner
rhythm"? What does that mean? How would I know a good conductor just
by looking at one? What are they doing with that stick? How do they
pull the orchestra together?
-rl
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Corrina
Connor
Moderator
Posts: 743
(8/29/01 6:21:26 pm)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
>>So I gather from everybody that the conductor harmonizes
the group. In other words, each musician just concentrates on their
part and the conductor makes sure that the parts pull together into
a larger work of music.<<
>>each musician just
concentrates on their part and the conductor makes sure that the
parts pull together<<
While it is very important for
each musician to concentrate on their part, they must also be able
to concentrate on many other parts as well - making sure that
composite rhythms with other sections fit together, and knowing when
they play with the flutes, when they play with the 2nd violins, when
it is a section 'solo' etc. However, more than anything, *listening*
is absolutely important, as music is primarily an aural art. One
needs to listen as much as when one is playing chamber music.
The conductors role is that of a 'communicator' firstly, and
intepreter, and then to hold the band together. They have to
communicate their vision of the work to the orchestra and the
audience. Hopefully, their vision is clear, and sincere, and without
gimickry, or being 'reactionary' just for the sake of it.
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Stef612
Registered User
Posts: 5
(8/29/01 7:01:46 pm)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
To me a conductor is one that not only directs the orchestra, but
helps you to understand the music and have an interest in it. I play
in a Youth orchestra in the capital region and I have liked the
conductors there because they enable me to do just that. It helps me
to feel more motivated during rehearsals and in preparation for
concerts
Stef 
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Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
Posts: 394
(8/30/01 9:02:29
am)
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That is a great
answer!
I've played under a range of conductors, David,and I think your
answer sums it all up.
There are a couple of other details,
all good conductors have a sense of the rhythm (beat) that is
consistently conveyed by some particular position of their hand(s)
in their pattern of motion. It is best if this is predictable from
the previous motion of their hands (for some it is not consistently
so).
I find it disconcerting to play for a conductor whose
beat is somewhere on "the way down" because each player acquires a
different sense of "where." For many whose beat is "at the bottom"
it looks like they are "beating up." but don't be
fooled.
Great conductors can convey the exact dynamics and
phrasing they want from their body language in a way that is
completely unambiguous. Herbert Blomstedt, for example, is one of
these, and he tried for many years to teach it in his conducting
master classes. I think this led to a significant improvement in the
general standard of community and college orchestra
conducting.
Some people's conducting can be followed from
their front or back. I'm not sure how they are conveying it - it's
not like they are dancing, or anything similar, but it's
there.
Andy
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sarah
schenkman
Registered
User
Posts: 466
(8/30/01 11:24:30
am)
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Re: What are
conductors for?
That is the question I'm always asking myself while watching
someone flailing around on the podium.
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ashley
Registered User
Posts: 59
(8/30/01 9:12:50 pm)
Reply
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Re: What are
conductors for?
I do realize that conducting must be very difficult and that there
certainly is more to it than waving a stick around! It's just
that I've always been amused by the term "stick technique." Thanks
for the response though. I think I'm going to look around for some
videos of conductors; maybe it's time to go to the library...
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