| Author |
Comment |
Len
Thompson
Registered
User
Posts: 141
(3/8/01 9:38:23
pm)
Reply
|
Carbon fiber
end-pin question
I am interested in those carbon fiber end-pins, but I'm wondering
if they get damaged at all from the screw that holds them. With my
current metal end-pin, I have to tighten it really well to prevent
it from killing off the resonance of my cello. While I know carbon
fiber is strong, I get this picture of the pin being dented every
time you tighten it, even if you don't crank on it to much. Anybody
have a problem like this, or can you speak to any problems that have
come up for you???
Len
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oldmancello
Registered User
Posts: 7
(3/8/01 10:07:12 pm)
Reply
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carbonfiber
endpin
I love my carbonfiber endpin (David Bice, $40). THe maker
recommended that I take out the screw holding the pin, and file the
"grabbing" end flat- I rounded it just slightly. Works fine, no
marks on the endpin.
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cellochris99
Registered User
Posts: 94
(3/9/01 5:31:19 am)
Reply
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carbon fiber
end-pin
How do you get the old end-pin out? I want to get a c.f. for mine
too.
Chris
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Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
Posts: 228
(3/9/01 9:52:58
am)
Reply
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Re: Carbon fiber
end-pin question
I too am delighted with David Bice's New Harmony 8mm carbon-fiber
end pin. I have three of them.
One is mounted in the wooden
fixture that Bice sells, which has a screw-type "holder" I too
originally worried about that design, but I've seen no evidence of
damage to the shaft of the pin. However, I suspect that over many
years, some wear will occur - but then it would be easy and cheap
enough to get a new pin if that happened.
The other two pins
are mounted in the original fittings that were already on the cellos
and I've seen no damage there either, but I think the idea of filing
it is a good one and I intend to do that after I go off
line.
I had expressed my concern to David Bice about possible
damage to the pin material, and he has just started producing a
COMPOSITE ENDPIN FIXTURE, that holds the pin securly without a screw
end touching it. I have one of these too, but have not yet installed
it on a cello. It should never damage a pin - til the end of
time.
If your old endpin will not come out of the fitting,
then it has some kind of "stop" either built on, welded on it, or
just fastened to the inner end. The only way to get it out is to
take out the whole old fitting and take the end off the old pin any
way you can and then remove the pin from the fitting.
Bice's
pins have nothing on the end to keep then in the fitting so they can
just be inserted and removed. (The points on his pins are
extraordinarily sharp - so you have to be really careful - but on
floors where you are permitted to use the pin point, they will hold
like speared prey.
I have certainly found these new pins to
give a significant improvement in tone and responsiveness over the
steel ones I previously had - on all three cellos. I could not
really say they gave a better sound than the 10mm Ferwerda pins -
that require a different fitting on all of my cellos (as would
Bice's 10mm pins). If you extend the endpin as far as it can go, the
10mm pin will give you more stability (rigidity). But the 8mm pins
are such a great advantage in being able to avoid changing the
fitting that they were my first choice.
Andy
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ruthann
Registered User
Posts: 426
(3/9/01 10:20:19 am)
Reply
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Re: Carbon fiber
end-pin question
I've got one, too. I got mine from Ellen at cellos2go. I don't have
to crank the screw very hard in order to hold the endpin. It just
doesn't slip down like the old metal one did on occasion. I've seen
no eveidence of damage on the shaft either. I don't know if it
changed the tone of my cello, but the solidity is wonderful.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com |
Cello
in K town
Registered
User
Posts: 10
(3/10/01 6:14:48
pm)
Reply
|
Re: Carbon fiber
end-pin question
Andrew,
How do you go about determing the diameter of you
endpin? I'm pretty sure I have a "standard" 8mm(?) size endpin
currently, but planning to get one of Mr. Bice's. I'm not sure if I
should get the 8mm or the 10mm(?) I like the idea of a more rigid
pin.
Also, does the endpin come with gold-plated screw &
fixture or is this a separate charge? (My cello desperately needs
this as my endpin screw & mount is rusting from the many years
of use! HELP!)
Also, you mentioned about a COMPOSITE ENDPIN
FIXTURE for the endpin, is this a separate charge?
My cello
is due for a "spring sprucing up" next month (new setup, bridge,
re-dress fingerboard, cosmetic, etc) and I hope to have my "NEW"
endpin put on then.
Any other advice would be
welcome.
Randy D.
--- Any advice on cello tailpieces?
|
Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
Posts: 230
(3/12/01 9:48:57
am)
Reply
|
Carbon fiber
endpin
David Bice recommends using his thicker, 10mm, endpin if you extend
your endpin a great distance (I'd say, over 18 - 20 inches). This
would require a new fitting.
Measuring the width of your
endpin can be a bit tricky because parallax viewing errors can fool
you -for example, I thought my old endpin was 6 mm, when it was
close to 8mm. I'd suggest you cut a small slot in a piece of
cardboard (an index card or cereal box top will do) and gradually
widen it until it just fits your current endpin, then measure the
width of the slot you have made. 8mm = 5/16 inch, almost
exactly.
Andy
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Len
Thompson
Registered
User
Posts: 142
(3/12/01 12:26:07
pm)
Reply
|
New Harmony
Tailpiece
Along the same lines: Do the new wooden tailpiece assemblies have
any advantage over the similar, light weight metal tail piece with
built-in tuners? They sure look a lot nicer! Logic tells me they
would probably sound(vibrate) better because they are wood, but I'm
just guessing. Anybody have any experience? Andrew, how does this
newest end-pin clamp thing work. I take it that it's not a screw
type of clamp!
Len
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DanK
Registered User
Posts: 17
(3/12/01 7:31:26 pm)
Reply
|
carbon
endpin?
Several people have mentioned this David Bice endpin. Where would
someone get one of those? Also, does anyone know about the gotz
carbon fiber, and how it differes from the gotz titanium? Thanks.
|
Len
Thompson
Registered
User
Posts: 144
(3/12/01 9:11:53
pm)
Reply
|
Re: carbon
endpin?
Dan, Cellos2go has them, as I'm sure others do as well, but Ellen
Gunst sure is a nice person to deal with.
http://www.cellos2go.com/
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ecmlee
Registered User
Posts: 9
(7/29/01 11:34:52 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Carbon fiber
end-pin question
I am also interested to buy the Bice C.F. end-pin. But I am
considering whether to buy the whole set (with fittings), or just
the end-pin alone. Is it worth to buy the whole set ($85)? Does it
have any improvement compare with the original fittings?
Eddy
|
Ellen
G 
Registered
User
Posts: 825
(7/30/01 7:45:39
am)
Reply
|
A few
answers
Here's my perspective. Take it for what it's worth.
The
composite plug is nice and compact, handsome, and if you want to see
a photo I can e-mail one. I prefer it over the CF I used to use
because that one protruded quite a bit from the cello and caused fit
problems in some cello cases. It was also more expensive. No
clearance at all to the bottom of the case, and lots of gouges.
We've installed the Bice assemblies in brand new cellos,
replaced old rods with CF rods, but I've not replaced a wood cone
with a composite cone so I can't attest to sound differences.
Usually the diameters are different, and I don't want to mess with
it.
We've found very few endpins that can accept the 10mm rod
without replacing the housing. Keep in mind you will need to remove
your existing assembly to measure the diameter of the cone to order
the right size, and again to actually make the switch in parts.
Personally I would go for the endpin alone unless you really were
really overhauling a cello or starting from scratch with a new cello
to be reamed. Or, if you're shopping for a new case and your
existing cello doesn't fit because of the large endpin housing, I'd
change that before I'd change brand/features of case. That did come
up recently.
The best way to measure round things is with
calipers. Sort of like an adjustable wrench which is calibrated.
This gives an accurate measurement. If you don't have calipers, I
guess Andy's method is as good as any.
I enjoy working with
every item David Bice makes. The parts are attractive, work well,
feel good when you handle them, are sensibly priced. Until I run
into a problem, I have nothing but good things to say about
them.
And it is a pain when you want to do a quick
replacement and you have one of those burr things on the end of your
endpin which prevents it from being removed. You simply have to
remove the whole assembly.
Perhaps Dorie can start using
discarded endpins in her artwork along with used cello strings. Not
sure what to do with the growing reserve...
|
Todd
French 
Moderator
Posts: 221
(7/30/01 9:33:29 am)
Reply
 |
Re: A few
answers
Ellen is right - the main reason for changing the plug is because
of clearance. Due to David Bice's tip design (we call it the
'megaspike' here in the LA Opera because it is so huge and forboding
:-) most cellos don't fit in their cases because of the added length
from the tip. I had to switch from a composite plug to David's, and
didn't notice any tone difference at all. However, I much prefer the
Bice plug aesthetically because it really is gorgeous and
well-executed.
Personally, I would recommend going with the
full assembly - it's affordable, remarkably attractive, and you can
feel assured that the quality will be backed for years to come. It's
no fun to give the rod alone a try and find out once you put it in
that you need the plug as well. (which is what happened to me...)
|
Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
Posts: 369
(7/30/01 10:09:27
am)
Reply
|
New New Harmony
endpin fitting.
The new composite endpin fitting that David Bice sells has a design
that does not impress the end of the screw into the composite shaft.
I'm not sure how it works, but it appears the screw squeezes a ring
into an elliptical shape that holds the shaft tightly over a larger
part of its surface than a screw tip alon would. The circular walls
fit tightly enough to hold the shaft secure in the other dimension.
I did find some variation in the diameter of the Bice endpin shafts,
such that of the three shafts and three cellos I have, there is a
differencce in which shaft fits which cello best.
The new
Bice composite fitting buries 2-3/8 inches into the cello- which is
qute a lot. I think it is very heavy, but it could be cut down to
reduce its weight if that improved an instrument's tone. Personally,
I trust what David Bice has done on all his designs - so I assume he
knew what he was doing on this one too.
On my previous
installations of new endpin fittings, the luthiers expanded the
diameter of the hole in the cello instead of turning down the
cylindrical fitting diameter. Bice offeres to adjust the diameter of
the fitting to fit your cello - in the case of the composite fitting
I got from him, but have not used yet, that combined with reducing
the length of the fitting could easily reduce its weight by
half.
My problem on reducing its diameter is that I never
could figure out which cello to fit it to (as it is now, it will
only fit the one with the largest hole) - I have Bice endpins in all
three, and one of his original wooden fittings only in one of
them.
Andy
|
edi
malinaric 
Registered
User
Posts: 16
(7/30/01 2:34:56
pm)
Reply
|
carbon
endpins
Hello all,
Just expand on Andy's comment re the clamping of
carbon fibre endpins.
There seem to be two systems of
clamping the endpin.
There is the modification of the
traditional thumbscrew where the housing has a steel tube trapped
inside it. This tube rattles around quite loosely. The carbon endpin
passes through the inside of the tube while the clamping screw
tightens down against the outside of the tube. In this way the
carbon pin is protected from being damaged by the clamping screw.
The carbon endpin is being pressed against the top and the bottom of
the housing and because of the greater contact area between tube and
the endpin you need far less "nip" to stop the peg
slipping.
If could figure I would show the endpin that I made
for my cello - before I even knew that such a thing was available.
The modern bulky looking one has a largish hole drilled into
the housing from the side. Into this hole the large cylindrical head
of a setscrew is placed and a hole is drilled "pinwards" through the
head. The endpin is pushed through the housing and the "nut" on the
setscrew is tightened to lock the pin in position.
In the
first system the screw is pushing against the endpin while in the
second it is pulling.
Personally I prefer the traditional
look as much for its elegance as its compactness.
Hope that
helps - cheers - edi
|
me4cello
Registered User
Posts: 128
(7/31/01 5:05:13 am)
Reply
|
measurement
Can you give us a measurement for how far the point of the end pin
sticks out from the housing, I need to know before I swap one from
my stahlhammer..many thanks
|
ecmlee
Registered User
Posts: 14
(7/31/01 7:14:07 am)
Reply
|
Re:
measurement
Also, what's the lmeasurement of the total fittings including the
end pin from the bottom of the cello?
Eddy
|
ecmlee
Registered User
Posts: 17
(8/2/01 1:09:36 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
measurement
(This message was left blank)
|
Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
Posts: 373
(8/4/01 9:42:20
am)
Reply
|
Re: measurement
- DIMENSIONS
The standard 8mm Bice endpin "point" projects 1-1/4-inch frfom the
fitting and his new composite fitting projects 1-1/8-inch below the
bottom of a cello - so the total projection from a stored cello
would be 2-3/8 inch (as closely as I can measure).
Andy
|
GlenC
Registered User
Posts: 19
(8/13/01 6:49:23 pm)
Reply
|
The effect on
sound
For what it's worth, I just got a New Harmony endpin, and it
cleaned up the sound some, reducing fuzziness and increasing the
focus a bit. This is increasingly evident the higher up I play.
While not an earthshaking difference, it's significant enough to be
absolutely worth doing.
I got it from Ellen at Cellos2Go.com,
and she's just like everyone says -- good to work with.
|
 Steve
Drake
Registered
User
Posts: 428
(8/15/01 4:17:35
am)
Reply
Community Supporter
|
Another question
on this topic -
I just got the Bice Endpin and fitting from Ellen at Cellos2go.com.
I got the 10 mm one, and the large fitting to replace my stahlhammer
endpin. My question to anyone with experience in this matter, is -
can you use the Bice endpin with the Stahlhammer fitting? They seem
to be about the same diameter, and I've been using it in there so
far with no problems. The Stahlhammer has a compression fitting, so
I don't think it'd damage the endpin.
It would save me the
bother of replacing the fitting if there's no problem, and I'd have
the option of going back to the stahlhammer if needed, and being
able to use it for the ocassional amplified gig where we use endpin
mikes.
Does anyone know the actual diameter of the
stahlhammer endpin? I don't have any calipers here. I realize that
this may be the kind of question I have to answer on my own... so be
it.
My MP3's
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