| Author |
Subject |
cellochris99
Registered User
(4/29/01 5:09:10 am)
Reply |
tension
in vibrato
When I'm playing, especially in 4th
pos. with 1st finger on high E, I'm having alot of trouble with
tension creeping up in my vibrato. 4th pos is just such an awkward
hand position to vibrate smoothly in, hence the heel of the neck
securing the thumb. My 2nd finger also has a tendancy to move toward
and aid the 1st finger on 1st finger vibrato in 1st pos. But, on a
more general basis, on long notes, I can vibrato smoothly for a few
seconds, but tension creeps up, and vibrato tends to degenerate.
What are some of the methods that you all use to fight
tension in vibrato?
Chris
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zambocello
Registered User
(4/30/01 1:57:14 pm)
Reply |
A
cabernet from one of the coastal vineyards?
|
 Steve
Drake
Registered
User
(4/30/01 3:29:23 pm)
Reply
Community Supporter
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Re:
tension in vibrato
tension shouldn't have any part in
your vibrato. It should be a very natural thing. Just try relaxing
when playing, and hoefully your vibrato will follow.
My MP3's
My Cello
Homepage
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msj
Registered User
(4/30/01 9:30:00 pm)
Reply |
tension
Chris -
If the tension is from
pressing down the string too hard and/or locking the hand, you may
try pressing down half way and playing that way for a while,
gradually increasing the amount that you press down until you can
get a solid sound. Make it a game to find out how lightly you can
press and still get a pure sound. Do this every day for a few
decades and you'll be tension free. I read something like this in a
book called BASICS, by Simon Fischer. He describes this 'game' in
more detail and much better than I do. You might try to get a hold
of the book even though it is geared toward violinists. It's
something that I'm constantly thinking about and struggling with
because my fingers are very sensitive. I'm always trying to release
tension in the non-playing fingers as well - not letting the hand
lock up.
Hope this helps.
Matt
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cellissima2
Registered User
(5/1/01 12:10:16 am)
Reply |
Re:
tension in vibrato
I struggled for a long time with
what my teacher dubbed "bumblebee vibrato" - fast and tense. I think
for me it came from starting vibrato before I'd established a solid,
relaxed position (I'd only been playing a month when I started doing
vibrato). I think the key is to slow down the oscillations, and make
sure there is no flexing of the wrist - solid unit from elbow to
finger. When practicing, stop and shake out the arm if it's getting
tense. If your thumb locks, try letting it hover off the neck so it
doesn't squeeze. Like I said, it took me a long time to repair my
faulty vibrato, but I eventually tackled the problem (massage
therapy helped). 4th position is actually my favorite vibrato
position, maybe I'm just weird that way.
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cellochris99
Registered User
(5/1/01 1:52:04 am)
Reply |
thanks
What I'm doing at the time, is that
I'm starting my vibrato occillations very slowly- using a metronome.
I'm starting from low C# and vibrating eighth notes at about 108bpm
up the scales of each string. When I get a good solid relaxed
vibrato and sound, whilest also trying Matt's trick, I'll move the
metronome up one click. This is helping improve other areas of tone
as well as projection.
I think my neighbors are on the verge
of calling someone out here to have me carried away to a home now!
Chris
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ruthann
Registered User
(5/2/01 12:02:12 pm)
Reply |
Re:
tension in vibrato
Tension issues are always tough.
Relax the hand, but play firmly, they tell you. But how? A really
good hand position can help, but the rest is up to you. You have to
be very aware of what tension feels like, and work at keeping it
away. It isn't a simple concept. Hands are tricky because you often
won't feel the tension in the hand, but in the forearm, where the
muscles are. Have you read Victor Sazer's book? He has many good
points on avoiding tension all through the body.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com
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cellochris99
Registered User
(5/3/01 3:52:32 am)
Reply |
Re:
tension in vibrato
I agree, it's kind of an oxymoron,
having to lock down a string firmly, and at the same time relax and
loosen everything, but shake it all back and forth smoothy, while
maintaining the loosened firmness! I'm consciously keeping my left
elbow loose and hanging from the neck, unlike before where tension
would cause my left arm to elevate. But, playing on the C string
forces me to elevate my left arm a bit. Thanks for your
help.
Chris
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Duane
Nevins 
Registered
User
(5/5/01 1:46:31 pm)
Reply |
hand
tension heard in your vibrato
Chris-
I just encountered this
same problem at my last cello lesson a few days ago. But the tension
in the vibrato was just the end result of several other problems
that when addressed caused the vibrato tension to go away. Let me
start out by saying that I have recently started to take cello
lessons from an excellent cello professor at the University of
Kansas. He formerly studied with Janos Starker and he has many great
ideas about how to play the cello musically that are very different
from what I learned previously many years ago before I quit playing
the cello for a long time. Back to the tension problem. What I was
doing was squeezing my fingers against the fingerboard with my
thumb. The goal is to use the weight and the muscles of the entire
arm to get just the right amount of pressure on the fingers on the
strings. This pressure changes during the duration of the note you
are playing. This is called "shaping" the note and when it is done
properly your thumb is actually off the neck of the cello and it
moves further away from the neck when you are applying more
pressure. The pressure should start from your shoulder. That way it
is easier to do and requires less work to accomplish and relieves
the tension in your hand. When I started to shape the note
correctly, the tension in my hand was eliminated and the vibrato was
controlled and it sounded the way I wanted it to sound. I hope this
makes sense and that it helps you with your
vibrato.
Duane
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cellochris99
Registered User
(5/8/01 3:21:27 am)
Reply |
Re:
hand tension heard in your vibrato
Duane, that's very helpful. Thanks
for the information. Actually, I've never been taught about the
"shaping" of the notes by changing pressure. I feel neglected , but then
again, my last teacher was a professional bassist/cellist mutant
anyway! He probably didn't feel like trying to explain.
I'm
experimenting with the pressure and shoulder control. I've noticed
that tension-free vibrato was much easier on synthetic strings. Now
I'm using (soloist)stainless A,D tungsten G,C now, and the higher
tension is forcing me to use a bit more pressure.
One other
thing,-probably a stupid ques.- but, when you're in thumb pos. and
say, for instance, you are vibrating on a high D(above A harmonic)
on 3rd finger, do you leave the 1st&2nd fingers on the string,
or is it best to allow them to rest over the D string. I've always
found that it's easier to get a smoother vibrato, when the fingers
aren't tied down to the relative A string position.
Chris
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RobertaJill
Registered User
(5/8/01 12:42:10 pm)
Reply |
Re:
hand tension heard in your vibrato
I am working with a new teacher and
the coincidence of how she teaches, what I want to learn and how I
learn is really great. One point of conflict (that's too strong a
word) -- vibrato. My vibrato isn't bad, but I tend to have only the
one finger down, and she wants me to put the first and second down
too if I am vibrating with the 3rd. After i tried it, and then
played with just the one finger, she said "well, let's not mess with
what works," but she still prefrers all fingers down. She also wants
me to maintain an "open" hand position (all fingers in place for the
notes) instead of letting my hand relax. Her point -- well taken --
is that my intonation will improve. I noticed Sazer suggests letting
the hand relax. Any Comments?
Roberta
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cellochris99
Registered User
(5/9/01 4:49:27 am)
Reply |
Re:
hand tension heard in your vibrato
I've learned that the "correct" way
to shift from one pos. note to another note of more than reaching
distance, for the sake of intonation, is to aim for that note's
position-(putting the inactive fingers over their respective notes)-
as your teacher advises, but when I try to -vibrato- like that, it
feels so restricted,-especially 3rd finger. My intonation is still
improving inspite of my "style", since I'm still arriving at the
note in position, I just immediately let up on 1&2 automatically
when I vibrato.
I guess if I really wanted, I could drill for
hours and days to force the "correct" way, since I would love to
play fast, in tune, and vibrato freely, all at the same time. At the
moment though, I don't use much vibrato in T. pos except for longer
held notes, which I suppose in that case it's okay to let 'er rip.
But when I play fast, I don't vibrato, I just pull an ocassional
tremor for color, easier said than done!
When I watch other
performing cellists, I don't always see a strict adherence to any
technical standard, I might add(i.e. Mr. Y. Ma)!
Chris
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zambocello
Registered User
(5/9/01 6:14:10 pm)
Reply |
Re:
tension in vibrato
Much good advice and suggestions in
this thread, but I find it hard to be too specific about vibrato
suggestions out of a musical context. I find for myself and for
students that an exact idea of the desired sound intuitively leads
towards the appropriate technique. The keys are 1) to have an idea
of the sound you want and 2) to listen honestly to ones self while
playing (or using a recorder).
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