| Author |
Subject |
Ponticello
Registered
User
(4/29/01 11:34:55 pm)
Reply |
Is
going Pro really that bad????
I have come to a major crossroads in
my life and have to make a decision.
I'm about to graduate from
an ivy league school with a degree in Biology, but there is this
side of me that is almost obesessed with cello, and I am strongly
considering going the professional route. I'm asking your honest
opinion if you advise against it.
There are so many things to
consider. I would probably otherwise go into investment banking
which I did last summer, but I KNOW if that happens, I pretty much
have to say goodbye to music. This summer, I barely had enough time
to practice and go to lessons, and the hours if I take a full time
position in banking will be much worse.
Also, even though I
love music, I need some type of concrete reason to practice. here at
school, I take lessons, for a grade. I do orchestra for a grade,
which is why I trek with my cello all the way across campus to the
practice room to practice for 3 or 4 hours.
If I just do, music
as a hobby in the future, I'm afraid I will lose that drive. As I
practice I will always think to myself, why am I practicing this one
line over and over again? I have no grades to worry about, there
will be no concert, I will never get to compete in a concerto
competition. And then I will just lose cello forever.
Since
I'm a minority I face so much pressure from my family to go into
banking or law or some prestigious profession so I can make enough
money down the road to support my parents and so on. You really cant
know how strong pressure like that can be unless you experience it
(especially as a minority, because theres added pressure from your
whole community). And don't get me wrong, I WANT to make my family
proud of me, but then again, I only have one life and thats it.
Shouldn't I do what I want with the short time I have on earth,
rather than worry about money and prestige?
But I'm so far
behind considering my age. I'm 22, I started playing trombone 8 yrs
ago, quit and switched to violin 5 yrs ago, and just switched to
cello 2 years ago. I have excelled very fast and my teachers are
always impressed and blown away by my skill. For example, I'm 5th
chair out of 9 cellos in an ivy leaugue university
orchestra.
But still, I am behind any cellist my age who
plans to go pro, as far as subtleties and technique.
So I'm
wondering if I should just give up this crazy dream of becoming a
cellist and just take the safe route, which I would do if I were
told that being a pro musican is such a nerve wracking, unsettling
life, riddled with job insecurity and a feeling like one must have
some masochistic streak
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cellochris99
Registered User
(4/30/01 5:34:53 am)
Reply |
re:
going pro
I dunno, it's hard to really give
good sound advice on such a major personal descision, from any
perspective, not knowing alot about you. I can, however, share some
things that I've personally dealt with in my walk in this life with
music as my companion! So keep in mind that what I'm saying is just
ME and my own personal experience and my own personality, feelings,
and logic etc.
For one thing, assuming that you've always
loved music and you have talent, -apparently you do, since you've
excelled relatively fast, and your teachers were "blown away"- and
you've tasted the sweet nectar of musical satisfaction, then it's in
your blood for the rest of your life! For me, at least, music is
like a woman that you can't always understand, get along with, or
even talk to, but somehow you could never live without her and be
happy deep down. It's the same with music. Once you have that vision
of grandeur burned in your mind- the roaring applause and shouts all
for YOU after you've pulled off "Tchaikovsky: Variations on a Rocco
Theme, or Elgar Concerto"- it comes back to haunt you every time
your alarm clock goes off at 6:45AM!
I've got nothing to
lose, unlike you. It sounds like you've got a pretty good career
possibility in your hand. But, like you, the lone ranger of
classical music in the family, and no one can really relate to me.
The only other musician in the family is a cousin that's singing on
the "Blow" soundtrack, and appears in Vogue mag.- I'm so proud of
her-. But I SERIOUSLY doubt that she practices scales and etudes for
5 hrs a day, or could even understand that kind of strange behavior,
it's just not cool, ya know. But......I press on!
But, I'm
not you, and your financial security IS very important as well. It's
something you'll just have to sleep over for a while!
Chris
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cellochris99
Registered User
(4/30/01 5:42:10 am)
Reply |
Darn,
how do you edit these things afterwards!
|
sarah
schenkman
Registered User
(4/30/01 7:18:42 am)
Reply |
Re: Is
going Pro really that bad????
I would think if you feel strongly
about it you'd want to give playing cello your best shot now while
you're fairly young - you probably can go into investment banking
later if cello doesn't work out. Seems a shame to not do what you
really want. Banking sounds kind of cold for someone who loves
music.
Chris - you need to log in to edit your reply.
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drcello
Registered User
(4/30/01 7:31:39 am)
Reply |
My
advice
I'm older, and let me speak as a
"dutch uncle." The problem with "going pro" is that there just
aren't that many paying positions out there, and you have got to
make a living (I bet your parents tell you that all the time).
Anytime a place comes open in a decent orchestra, that pays
a living wage, there will be 50 or 100 applicants for the position.
If you aren't a real whiz, plus lucky as can be (or predestined, if
you are a Presbyterian), then you probably won't get the
job.
I highly recommend sticking with biology or whatever job
that leads to. Get a good job. Make some money so you can support a
family. (You are only 22, there are aspects to life that you can't
appreciate right now.) Then, make cello your hobby. Get a semi-pro
job so you will be forced to practice, take some more private
lessons, play gigs around town, etc.
Another point to
consider, is that when you go pro, it becomes a job, and some of the
luster goes away. There are a lot of pros who no longer really love
what their doing, but they must continue, because it is their
living.
I think if you get a good job, and do cello as a
hobby on the side, odds are you will have a more fulfilling life.
Best wishes,
drcello
Marshall C. St. John
drcello@vei.net
Cello Heaven
Tired of ads
and popups? Try "Cello
Talk," the Cello Heaven message board.
|
jjlochlomond
Registered User
(4/30/01 7:37:10 am)
Reply |
career
choices
I will repeat the caveat that it's
pretty impossible to give advice on such a huge decision, especially
to someone who is, for all intents and purposes, a complete
stranger. And, as someone who will *never* be a professional
musician (y'all can trust me on this one!), I'm maybe not the type
of person you're looking for advice from.
*But* I do remember
senior year of college, and the pressures I felt from many
directions to proclaim my career choice. My parents were actually
relatively low-key about it, thank the gods, but the social pressure
was pretty incredible; the school I went to was one of the so-called
"little ivies," and most days it seemed like everyone I blinked at
was either accepted into a high-quality grad school, embarking on a
high-powered career (tons of i-bankers in the bunch!), or going into
the Peace Corps or Teach for America or some other save-the-world
thing. The pressure wasn't necessarily to make lots of money --
although since most of 'em were graduating with tens of thousands of
dollars in debt, that was definitely a concern -- but to have a
career that could be seen as *worthy* of the ivy-ish education, the
kind of thing that would look good in the alumni reports ("members
of the class of '93 now find themselves working to feed the hungry
in Somalia, premiering their films at Sundance, or making the
decisions that drive our economy as analysts at the Federal
Reserve"). And most of my classmates *were* high-powered people, so
this didn't seem (although I should emphasize *seem*; I'm sure many
of them were feeling much more lost than it looked like to me) like
much of a problem. In any case, I imagine the environment was pretty
similar to what you find yourself in now.
Fast-forward
several years. I'm building a fairly decent career in a field I
didn't even know *existed* my senior year in college, and most of
the time (at least when I'm fully staffed!) I work about 40-50 hours
a week, which means I have plenty of time to pursue other interests
-- mostly music. I'm not rolling in dough, but I'm doing just fine,
despite the !#@% housing market in Boston. I'll never be a famous
soloist, but this city is crawling with musicians and has lots of
chamber opportunities at all levels, which for me is the most
fulfilling and educational type of playing, as well as orchestras. A
number of people I work with manage to juggle their work here with a
semi-pro career (opera singers to oboists!), and at least one has
been able to arrange leaves of absence when he gets a touring gig.
Not being a full-time musician doesn't have to mean that
you're only a "hobbyist" who plays a few tunes after dinner. There
are plenty of performance opportunities available at all different
levels of ability and commitment. And it may seem right now that you
need to be able to answer "what do you do?" with a single phrase ("I
am an investment banker" or "I am a cellist.") I really urge you not
to limit your self definition to a single phrase. If someone asks
you "what do you do?" answer it by telling them what you do ("I do
research for a mutual fund company, play cello for the Unnamed City
Music Society, and make the world's best lasagna.") without trying
to make the answer stand for who you *are*.
So basically, I
guess I'm saying I don't think the choice is necessarily between the
high-powered 90-hour week i-banking career on the one hand and
aiming for a high-powered professional music career on the other.
Don't just think black and white, think checkerboards, glen plaid,
polka dots. I think I *would* advise against taking a job that won't
leave you any time for music, if music is something you really love,
though. Not only will you lose the time for music, you likely will
end up feeling conflicted or resentful about the hours you have to
work and that *will* have an effect on whether you succeed in that
arena.
Off my soapbox now (and best wishes!)
JJ
|
MsCheryl
.gif)
Registered
User
(4/30/01 8:07:46 am)
Reply |
What a
good answer!
Yes - love that image of plaids! I
agree - why investment banking? With a degree in biology? There must
be less intense jobs out there which would give you the flexibility
you need (and the quality of life, as well - assuming quality of
life lies not with money, but with enjoyment of your time here on
earth!) You'll find something - be imaginative!
Edited by: MsCheryl
at: 4/30/01 8:07:46 am
|
bridge
Registered
User
(4/30/01 9:47:12 am)
Reply |
Re:
Darn, how do you edit these things afterwards!
You have to be logged in. If you
are, when you see your post it'll give you and "edit" option
button.
|
bridge
Registered
User
(4/30/01 10:04:06 am)
Reply |
Re: Is
going Pro really that bad????
I don't know much about be a pro
musician.
I'm 34. I hate my career. I'm an engineer. I did it
because my parents didn't believe in going to college unless you
were going to learn something useful.
I've been playing cello
for 2.5 years and I really love it. I wish I could play much more. I
really want to see far I can take it.
However, my job has
served me well. It's supported my family while my wife went to
medical school in her 30's and I've been able to move all over the
country and get jobs very easily.
Being a pro: I'm not one,
but in a city of 0.5 million you get to know people. I bought my
cello from someone who works in the violin shop 40 hours a week,
teaches AND plays in the symphony here. Biggest one in the biggest
city in the state. So . . . I work 40 hours a week, I dont' teach
anybody and I probably make several tens of thousands more per year.
Now I've become more grateful.
Even though I went into
engineering for all of the wrong reasons, fate would have it that
it's been a blessing in a way. I've found that unless one has evil
motives, decisions are rarely inherintly wrong.
Mmmm. I guess
this all sounds like a plug for banking. But it's really not. I know
I'm rambling. I'm just trying to share how this stuff isn't so black
and white. One could try to go pro . . . and if you get sick of it .
. . you can go into something else. Then you won't have any regrets.
Or maybe you won't get sick of it.
In my wife's graduating
class (Med School) there was an ex-Julliard Pianist and an ex-chef
in his 40's. See what I mean?
|
zambocello
Registered User
(4/30/01 1:52:42 pm)
Reply |
Lucky
you!
That you have such a
choice!!
I agree with those who say "why make an either/or
choice?"
While you're undecided, keep options open.
If
your reason for going pro, in whatever filed it may be, is to make a
secure living, music may not be the right choice. I read a statistic
once about how many music (performance major)students are graduating
as a percentage of available music positions. It ends up that less
than 5% of those students make a living at what they studied to
do!
On the other hand, your fallback options in finance and
biology give you a good parachute in case music as vocation doesn't
work out the way you wanted.
(As an aside, all the kids in
my family studied music. I'm the only one who does it vocationally.
Two other siblings are university professors in math and biology. We
three have doctorates and I suppose make similar incomes. The other
brother, who struggled to succesfully complete a BS degree is now a
stock broker making tons more money that us!  )
Edited by: zambocello
at: 4/30/01 1:52:42 pm
|
Ponticello
Registered
User
(4/30/01 3:22:00 pm)
Reply |
Thanks
so much for your help!
I really appreciate all your input.
Even though none of you know me personally, you have said a lot of
things I can relate to.
At this point, like I said, I'm about
to graduate, and my biggest fear in life is being 45/50 yrs old and
regretting what I did with my life. If I go the banking route, I'm
afraid I will always wonder, "what would have happened if I
had...?"
It's weird, how my whole life is passing before my eyes
now, and I'm only 22. I want to do something that I enjoy, but wont
feel like I made a mistake years from now.
The thing is
though I really enjoyed banking this summer, so I hope I won't end
up like the engineer who hates my career.
But I hear what
your saying about the job market for instrumentalists being so
tight. With all my student loans I really can't afford not to have
security in the future.
I agree that I should try to find a
career however, where I WILL have the time to do music on the
side.
|
Sasha
A M
Registered
User
(4/30/01 3:35:50 pm)
Reply |
another
"late decision" story
hi!
being a pro in music does
not neccessarily mean a soloist or orchestra career. i started with
suzuki method when i was 6 years old, but quit cello at 15 to pick
it up at 19 again. i had started studies in musicology, and soon
(21?) started to participate in suzuki teacher training, because one
of our teachers thought that my playing would develop fast enough to
get to the required level for teacher trainees.
soon i
started to get pupils, and by the time i got to professional
conservatory training i had my hands full of teaching work, because
i get really well along with children. next year im finishing my
studies, and despite the "late decision" my playing has progressed
so fast in last two years, that im starting to get interested in
performing professionally, and teaching less. now im 28, have a
fantastic teacher (a master, i dare to say), have a very good piano
trio, and occasional orchestra gigs to give some change to the usual
teaching work.
so, i would say by all means try it! life is
long and you can change your mind later. you can get two professions
(remember late sinopoli - conductor and md at the same time), or be
happy with playing. only thing you must remember is, that practising
can be really hard work sometimes, and you might hope that you did
something easier. but not always!
sasha
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cellochris99
Registered User
(5/1/01 3:41:52 am)
Reply |
going
pro
Yeah, Sasha made a good point about
practicing. When you practice with the discipline and dedication
that it takes to seriously go pro.. -ohhh, those finger exercises
and scales!...-sometimes when I come home from work to practice, it
feels like I'm preparing for a second job! It is just that....WORK!,
but it pays off with satisfaction.
Chris
|
bridge
Registered
User
(5/1/01 3:30:05 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Thanks so much for your help!
Engineer who hates his career here.
I never stepped foot in an engineering office until I went on my job
interviews after graduating from school.
So you are already
many steps ahead of me. You think you're confused! I didn't know
WHAT the HECK I was doing!
:-)
|
mpasciu1
Registered User
(5/1/01 4:04:16 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Thanks so much for your help!
Just my two cents as
well:
Throughout college I had decent success with the cello,
and was getting indications from my various teachers that going to a
conservatory for grad school was a possibility. I was and still am
completely in love with the cello and music and I really gave it
some thought. However, ultimately, I made the choice of financial
independence instead of following my passion (i too became an
i-banker). As you know from your internship, the hours are really
nasty, and these days job security does not exist, but its exciting
work (sometimes) and the pay is good. In my not so copious free time
I still play quite a bit. Not much during the week, but on weekends
I can usually get between 4-8 hours of practicing in. Sometimes its
tough to stay motivated (since there are no concerts/competitions in
the near term) but its a good way to keep yourself from becoming a
totally one-dimensional banker.
Point is, I've been around
some very talented cellists who've gone on to become professional
musicians after their stints at Juilliard,etc, and I've seen what a
difficult life it can be--lack of steady work/paycheck etc. If you
have school loans, banking is a good way to go since you'll get them
out of the way pretty quickly, and then you can have ridiculous
goals like i have (i.e. collecting cellos). Finally, regardless of
what my business card says I am, I know that I am a musician-- so
like Sinopoli and others its possible to moonlight and more.
|
Anna
List
Registered
User
(5/1/01 5:09:51 pm)
Reply |
Pro
...
One more opinion ...
as you might
already have read on this board, my problems are quite related. My
parents also don't want me to be a musician, and they really have
good reasons, as DrCello already posted. But: If you are talented
(and you seem to be), try it, no matter what profession you do later
(you're not to old to become a banker with 26!). I don't want you to
think about your life at the age of 50 and miss something really
essential, like playing the cello.
If your parents don't want you
to - so what (easy to say, I know). You're old enough to make your
own decisions. But think about their reasons; it's hard to get a
job, if your 16 or if you're 22.
So: do what your heart tells
you and don't forget your mind!!!
Good luck, Anna.
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cellochris99
Registered User
(5/2/01 5:58:50 am)
Reply |
Re: Is
going Pro really that bad????
Ponticello I assume you're name is
Courtney, but anyway, I'm also in a fix. I'm thinking about changing
my degree from music to something else. 'Just can't decide. I've
already taken all of my music classes with good results, and now I'm
stuck with all the other ones that I've put off until now, like
Speech communication and presentation...Blaauuk! I think I'll drive
off a cliff now!
Chris
|
Parker
Garvin
Registered
User
(5/2/01 6:43:25 pm)
Reply |
your
words were wonderful
I just want to tell you that your
words inspired me. Plaid, polka-dots, more than a hobby. Since I
have a lot of professional training at the cello I often feel lousy
about not pursuing it full force right now and your perspective is
one that I will remember.
 Thank
you
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