| Author |
Subject |
jmm68
Registered User
(5/5/01 10:27:07 pm)
Reply |
Adult
beginning cello lessons - advice appreciated
I am an adult in my early thirties
who has just started learning the cello. I have never learned any
instrument before and had always wanted to learn the cello.
I had my third lesson last week and my cello teacher
indicated that possibly I should consider another instrument. This
is because I have had some difficult reaching the open A string.
Initially he thought I should try a smaller cello (I am a short and
stocky build) but after trying the 3/4 he didn't appear to think I
would improve my reach with practice.
My question is this -
are 3x30 minute lessons enough to decide this? I am a natural left
hander and have taken some time getting used to changing my
orientation to right. I also use a lower chair at home than I do at
class and I generally find practice easier at home.
I have
only been learning as a hobby so I certainly don't want to persist
with something that I am truly not able to make any improvement in
but I also don't want to give up if there is any possiblity I will
be able to eventually get better. As I indicated I have always loved
the cello and it took me a long time to gather the courage to begin
lessons.
Any advice would be appreciated.
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cellissima2
Registered User
(5/5/01 11:28:56 pm)
Reply |
Re:
Adult beginning cello lessons - advice appreciated
I find your question perplexing.
Having not had the opportunity to work with you on these problems in
person, I do not think I'm in a position to second-guess your cello
teacher. However, if he does not feel that he can help you, you
might consider getting a second opinion before giving up
entirely.
I have not had a student that could not reach the a
string if holding the cello properly. I have encountered female
adult beginners who have difficulty holding the cello properly
because their, um, cleavage makes it uncomfortable. However, there
are also a lot of well-endowed women who are accomplished cellists,
indicating that it can be done. If you think the problem is because
of your body type, go to a concert or two and see if you can find a
cellist with a similar build, and check out how they are holding the
cello. Also, If the lower chair at home makes you feel more
comfortable when playing, why not bring the chair with you to your
lesson?
I have worked with quite a few adult beginners, and
to be honest, most of them give it up when they realize they don't
have time to practice enough to achieve the sound that made them
fall in love with the instrument in the first place. I don't want to
discourage you from pursuing it, just be aware that learning to play
cello requires a lot of time, effort, and tenacity. The rewards can
be great, but they don't come quickly or inexpensively. You need to
decide (maybe not right now, but sometime soon)whether it's worth it
to you. If it is, then go for it! If not, at least you gave it a
try, and you can enjoy listening to others play the cello with no
regrets. Best of luck to you.
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raymcc85
Registered User
(5/6/01 1:47:54 am)
Reply |
Re:
Adult beginning cello lessons - advice appreciated
Don't give up the cello just because
of this criticism. If you can "reach" the A string at home, you can
at a lesson. I agree that perhaps the next best step is to get a
second opinion. In any case, my advice is to stop playing only if
you feel that it's best to stop, not because someone else urges you
to stop. Others have learned. So will you.
-r
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mremmers
Registered User
(5/6/01 8:26:21 am)
Reply |
Re:
Adult beginning cello lessons - advice appreciated
I'd not have another lesson with
this teacher. Period. He is obviously not willing to help you
achieve your dream.
I picked up the cello at 43, cold, not
even knowing how to read music. We worked through some issues with
position to accomodate my size. And I made the committment to
practice no matter how frustrating and illusive the goal
seemed.
Eight years later I play in an orchestra and trio.
I'm pretty sure had my first encounter been with your teacher I'd
never have made it through.
Hang in there. Find a teacher who
loves working with adults and give it at least a year before making
any assumptions that the cello is not for you.
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Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
(5/6/01 9:29:01 am)
Reply |
Re:
Adult beginning cello lessons - advice appreciated
I empathize with your problems,
although I do not have the left-handed orientation to fully
understand them.
The variables, of chair height, cello-endpin
length, angle of the instrument to the floor, angle of the
instrument about its endpin - all can be varied to adjust TO YOU!!
That is the important thing. I always carry a little tapemeasure
with me aned premeasure the chair I will have to sit in to play the
cello - then I lengthen or shorten the endpin accordingly. You
should have an endpin at least 20-21 inches long, to give you enough
range of adjustment.* Play with enough endpin extension to allow you
to get some natural help (gravity) getting bow force on the strings.
Typically, I think the C-string tuning peg should be at the hight of
the left ear whenever you play. (* My first cello had only a 12-inch
long endpin, my next only 16-inches - neigher is really enough. The
standard endpin diameter is about 8 mm. An endpin can be removed
[although sometimes it requires that the strings and bridge be taken
down and the endpin fittient be removed. Then a longer, "removable,"
can be substituted. I and many of us here would recommend using an
8mm carbon-fiber endbin from David Bice at New Harmony. In addition
to giving needed length, it works wonders for tone.)
Typical
playing angle of the bow hair on the strings will tilt the stick
toward you so you are playng on the nearer edge of the hair "ribbon"
and do not have to contort your right arm and wrist. Playing with a
bent right thumb can be difficult - many great cellists have been
observed using a straight thumb to help hold the bow (whatever any
teacher says). The top of the hand (wrist) should generally be
parallel to the plane of the bow (for cello playing), although for
certain strokes and to get index finger force on the bow, when
needed, this will be changed.
Best angle of the cello about
its endpin will not have it flat across your own chest (call that 0
degrees), but pushed out a little on the left side, perhaps 10 to 20
degrees (maybe even a rare 30 degrees, if that works for you at
times). Nor do you have to keep that angle constant. This will make
it easier to reach the A string with the bow.
This angle
will make playing straight (perpendicularly) across the strings
deceptive, and you will have to raise your right hand a bit as you
pull the bow to your right. Otherwise, you will have a tendency to
squawk at times. Even this angle may have to be adjusted for some
notes (on some cellos).
Best of luck.
Andy
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Tracie
Price 
Registered
User
(5/6/01 1:56:50 pm)
Reply |
Do not
give up
I agree with others here in that
perhaps all you need to do is alter your playing position. I've not
heard of someone switching to a smaller cello because of not being
able to reach the A string. From what you've said, it doesn't appear
that this teacher really wants to help you learn the cello, have you
looked for another teacher? Personally, I love teaching adult
beginners because I am impressed by their bravery in trying
something new, when most people wouldn't. People of all shapes and
sizes play the cello, don't let this teacher quash your
dream.
Do some experimenting with chair height and endpin
length and angle of the cello.
And find a new
teacher!
Best wishes
Tracie
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Betsy
C 
Registered
User
(5/7/01 4:55:13 am)
Reply |
Do NOT
give up!
I'd look for another teacher
perhaps. This teacher may be trying to be realistic with you, but
with a lot of diligence you can have enjoyable experiences with the
cello. I started at age 44, a little over a year and a half ago, and
I hava a really good time (usually). I say usually, because lately
things have been going haywire in my personal life (you know, aging
parents getting very ill, etc) and there are times when the cello
has to take a back seat. If you can locate a teacher who understands
that adults have responsibilities and you really do make a diligent
effort to practice, you can definitely reach some level of playing
that will enable you to make music for YOUR enjoyment, and that is
why you wanted to start the cello anyway, because YOU liked it,
right? I wish you all the best, and I am not a natural cellist as
far as innate ability goes, so I know a bit of how you feel. Maybe
visit the Cellists By Night Board periodically; you can learn a lot
there from people who face the same dilemmas about starting later in
life. Give it a real try- don't be discouraged. Ask questions! Above
all, don't shortchange yourself from the start. Learning cello can
be hard, but it is also worth it. Just a thought: could you move
(with a new teacher) to hourly lessons? I think the continuity of
time helps. You (like me) are left handed, too. That does not have
to be an obstacle. The bow hold will come. There are times still
when it all comes together for me and feels right, and I have many
times where none of this feels like I ever picked it up before in my
life! The cello can be a good journey- have fun with it! Best to
you. Let us know what you've decided. I hope you go for it.
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jmm68
Registered User
(5/7/01 5:39:19 am)
Reply |
Thanks
and one further question
I would like to thank everyone for
their feedback. I have decided to give it a try and I went picked up
my cello today. I realise it won't be easy but I am prepared to work
hard.
I have one related question. I feel most comfortable
with my endpin extended around 5 inches (I am five foot tall). My
teacher has extended it quite a bit longer for my lessons - I think
because the chair I use in class is higher. I wonder if there is any
rule/ratio for how far the endpin needs to be
extended.
Thanks again I really appreciated the advice as my
confidence was slightly dented.
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Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
(5/7/01 9:49:45 am)
Reply |
Endpin
extension
jimm68,
I gave you part of my
"rule." I extend the endpin so that the C-string tuning peg is at
the height of my left ear. I angle the cello to me and the floor so
that when I sit straight in the chair, the peg is at my left ear,
but if I lean forward to play, of course it is a bit behind me. I
practice in a chair that is 18-inches (45 cm) floor to seat. From
all I can tell - these measurements are fairly typical - and lead to
a pin extension of about 16-1/2 inches from the cello body itself. I
have certainly seen people play with a much shorter extension - but
I think it leads to some bad technique - it definitely forces you to
lean forward into the cello - which has got to be hard on your back.
It is not your height when standing that determines the
endpin extension, but your height when seated. The chair should be
of a height that allows you to put your feet on the floor
comfortably.
Some cellists like to sit on a wedge (or
wedge-shaped pillow) that tilts them forward a bit - and can help if
their legs are bit short for the chair - it also helps get over the
"lip" of some chairs - for comfort (and for men- for prostate
health).
Andy
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Markse
Registered User
(5/7/01 10:40:11 am)
Reply |
Re:
Adult beginning cello lessons - advice appreciated
A few thoughts on your
situation.
I pleased to see that you're no going to give up.
Take some time, several months at least, then consider how you feel
about playing the cello.
I'm trying to imagine effectively
playing with the endpin extended only 5 inches! Review Andrew
Victor's post on playing position. It's good advice. You'll have a
much easier time if you start with a proper playing
position.
Get another teacher. Any teacher who lets you
continue with improper playing position AND tells you to give it up
after only a few lessons is NOT going to help you learn to play the
cello.
Good luck to you.
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