| Author |
Comment |
Andrew
Victor
Registered User
Posts: 302
(5/12/01 7:40:52 pm)
Reply
|
Rosin/Bow/Strings/bad sounds! -guidance?
Whenever I play the cello I start with clean strings and great
sound, but within an hour I start to get resistance that causes some
false sounds - especially up high and down low.
I get some
improvement by cleaning of the strings, but one can't do that in the
midst of a long passage. Also, just cleaning with a cloth fixes the
problem for only a few minutes.
The problem is worse with
some bows than others, worse with some cellos than others - I've not
been able to correlate it to string brands (over the range Belcando
Gold, Jargar, Spirocore, Obligato). I think it is worse with soft
rosin (Jade) than with hard (so mostly I use M-D Gold & Silver)
but even with this I still have the problem. I'm not sure there is a
weather correlation of not - our temperatures here near SF don't
vary much.
Could I be starting to apply more pressure as I
play longer? Would that do it.
Does anyone have guidance
toward possible solutions. Should I go to an even harder rosin - for
example, what? SHould I be trying more or les bow-hair tension?
???
Is this why some cellists keep a cloth on their
laps?
Thanks for any help.
Andy
|
TerryM
Registered User
Posts: 391
(5/12/01 9:41:44 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Rosin/Bow/Strings/bad sounds! -guidance?
Perhaps you have too much rosin on your bow. I get the impression
in reading this board that many people rosin their bows every time
and again during a playing session. Years ago I used to have
problems similar to what you describe and my teacher at the time
told me I had far too much rosin on my bow. She told me that if you
bang the wooden part of the bow on your hand and you get a dusting
of rosin coming off the bow, you have too much rosin on the bow.
I rosin my bow every two weeks or at most weekly and that is
all. I have very few problems with rosin build up and no problems
with the bow gripping the strings. You can test to see how much is
enough by running the bow lightly over the strings up on the
fingerboard and if you see a very light and barely perceptible
dusting of rosin on the strings, then you have plenty of rosin on
the bow. In my estimation any more is just excess that builds up on
the strings and chokes the sound. Frequent cleaning with a soft and
clean rag while playing will prevent any serious
buildup.
Terry
|
lblake
Registered User
Posts: 344
(5/12/01 10:10:20 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Rosin/Bow/Strings/bad sounds! -guidance?
I'm quite sure Andy doesn't rosin his bow too much... his rosining
philosophies are much like yours.
You know, Andy, I've been
running into this same problem lately, especially - and the weather
here has probably been more like San Francisco weather lately...
I've been wondering what to do, too. I almost have been inclined to
wonder if perhaps I should actually use MORE rosin!
My
teacher uses a ton of rosin - rosins his bow every time we sit down
to play - and granted, he's got much much finer equipment than I do,
but he doesn't seem to have problems like this. I wonder if you
leave the strings gunky, but for what you wipe off with a cloth
after each session, if they get a completely different consistency
that takes different treatment than clean strings. I'm sure it is
different, of course, but I don't know if it's better.
So, I
can't help much, but... am almost ready to do some experimenting in
the over-rosined direction! So, if i do break down and do so (god
forbid!) then I'll be sure to let you know my results. Still don't
have the nerve to try it, though.... we'll see.
|
cellochris99
Registered
User
Posts: 166
(5/12/01 11:46:40
pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Rosin/Bow/Strings/bad sounds! -guidance?
Andy, I know exactly what you are talking about. It happens to me
too. Sometimes, when I just begin practicing after warm up, the tone
is right, but as I continue playing over the next hour, the sound
gets a bit dull and scratchy. I, like Terry rosin only once a week.
In fact, the last time I rosined was last Saturday, and I'm finally
not getting any more residue on my strings.
I think that it
might be the type of rosin that you're using. Try something a little
harder. I'm using soft rosin, and I've noticed that it's very hard
to get off all of the sticky residue. I could wipe and wipe, but I
still feel some friction on the cloth. I think that the softer
rosin, combined with the seasonal humidity and temperature, is
forming a micro-film on the string surface,-sort of like a Teflon
coating! And that texture is causing your bow to slip around in a
particular way that's just enough to knock off the bow's tracking
and response on the fundamental. It seems to help if I lower the
tension a bit too.
Chris
|
Len
Thompson
Registered User
Posts: 184
(5/13/01 6:57:05 am)
Reply
|
Re:
Rosin/Bow/Strings/bad sounds! -guidance?
The weak link is obviously the rosin, but why I'll never know.
Perhaps with all the technology that's being applied to cello's of
late, could be applied to rosins as well. Maybe some synthetic
compound out there would work wonders? My bow is definatley a weak
link for me, but I have noticed that even when useing a bow that is
much better, the sound will start to fall off after a reletivly
short time. Just cleaning the strings with the cloth, or adding a
little more rosin can sometimes make things worst.?? The comments
from Chris seem to make some logic. It's rather disheartening to
hear that "you" still battle with this problem Andy, but keep your
chin up!
Len
|
Andrew
Victor
Registered User
Posts: 303
(5/13/01 10:12:40 am)
Reply
|
Thanks for all
the advice.
It's not rosining too much or too frequently. I typically go a week
or two between rosinings. When I do rosin, it's typically just a
swipe or two. I wipe my bow on dark pants or shirt to check the
rosin excess (there is NEVER enough to shake off - even by
"strumming" the hair). Wiping the strings with a cloth always offers
some resistance (unless I've just cleaned them with alcohol) - but
then, that's how the whole concoction works - a working string has
to have some rosin on it.
So I guess I'll try some different
rosin brands - perhaps I start with what's around the house - some
light Hills. Then I'll just line up that "rosin museum" I've
acquired and give it a workout. If that doesn't work, maybe I'll try
over rosining. It's just that it takes a while to undo any changes
in rosin practice until you are sure the old rosin is really
gone.
Also, rooting thru my box of "old stuff" I found the
"SPEZIAL - KOLOPHONIUM. Dr. Thomastik & Mitarbeiter, Wein" that
came with my first (real) cello (not the Kay) 52 years ago. It is in
a two-sided plastic holder apparently with a hard rosin on one side
and softer on the other. One side is worn to a thickness varying
from 0 to 1/16 inch; the other 1/16 to 1/4 inch. I'm not sure they
still make it - but I did find a two-sided Thomastik rosin
advertised in the Southwest Strings catalog (but nowhere else) - and
ordered it. We shall see!
Andy
|
karenlee
Registered User
Posts: 37
(5/14/01 7:33:31 am)
Reply
|
another
one.
I too recognize this problem. I am hearing bad stuff and wiping off
the strings,and that seem to help. I don't know the solution. I am
using Hill's dark.
|
Dick500
Registered
User
Posts: 88
(5/14/01 8:33:15
am)
Reply
|
Re: Rosin
problem
Andy--
Interesting mystery. There seem to be a lot of
variables, in both your description and in the answers to date,
which haven't been eliminated as possible suspects. In perhaps
prematurely identifying the cuplrit as too much rosin, the act of
eliminating the evidence may, in fact, be allowing the real villain
to escape scot free. Try the following:
1) When the sound
goes bad after about an hour, just put the cello and bow down, wipe
nothing, do not rosin the bow, walk away to do something else for
about 10 or more minutes, then come back, wipe nothing, do not rosin
the bow, and try the same music again. Is the sound improved or is
it the same as when you left it?
2) When you notice that the
sound goes bad, are you playing: loud or soft or mix, at the frog or
tip or mix, near the bridge or fingerboard or mix, scales or etudes
or cello repertoire or orchestra parts?
3) When you notice
that the sound goes bad, is the onset sudden or gradual? Keep
playing without wiping or rosining anything. Does the sound get
worse, better, or stay the same? Is any change sudden or
gradual?
4) If you have two bows which feel and play
substantially the same under ideal conditions, rosin one normally
and rosin the other rather more heavily. Start practicing with the
normally-rosined bow. When the sound goes bad, immediately pick up
the other bow and, backing up some few measures, continue playing
without having stopped to wipe the strings. Is the sound improved,
worse, the same?
5) In as much detail as you can, describe
how you rosin.
--Dick--
|
TerryM
Registered User
Posts: 393
(5/14/01 2:17:00 pm)
Reply
|
Some further
thoughts and some polymer physics
Of course I should have remembered Andy's, (the Bowmeister), posts
on bow evaluations and his repeated cautions regarding using too
much rosin on the bow!
The situation he described in this
post got me to thinking about the composition and structure of rosin
and the courses I have taken in polymer chemistry and hence the
following research and explanation.
Rosin is a naturally
occurring resin derived from pine trees and it is a thermoplastic
material; that is it can be melted and reset. When it is melted it
is fluid, but of a fairly high viscosity. I have, in the past,
melted down my old rosin cakes to make a “new” one. I simply poured
the melted rosin into a tin lid and let it set. When rosin cools it
forms what is known as a glassy polymer, which, for all intents, is
a fairly hard and un-reactive material, something akin to window
glass, which is the classic glassy form of silicon dioxide or sand.
Glassy polymers have a point at which they soften and become
“rubbery” or soft. The glass transition point is known as Tg. Some
glassy polymers also exhibit the ability to crystallize, but cannot
do so until the glass transition temperature, Tg, is reached. Tg,
can however, be lowered by the addition of plasticizers and this is
the basis of the texture and feel of many synthetic materials that
we use daily. So the addition of a plasticizer can lower the glass
transition temperature of rosin to a point where the material is in
the "rubbery" or sticky zone.
What has all this polymer
physics got to do with bowing? When rosin is melted and “set” it is
then in the glassy cake that we all know and use. The material is
hard or to put it in terms of polymer physics, it is in the glassy
state. Its thermal softening point is above room temperature and the
material stays as a solid. Different hardnesses of rosins probably
relate to different grades of resins or the use of plasticizers or
softening agents in them. One of the most ubiquitous plasticizers is
water. Water will lower the glass point Tg of many polymers and I
suspect that it would do the same for rosin. Rosins that have sat
about for long periods of time in humid environments could pick up
moisture and become sticky upon playing. This may account for some
of the problem you are seeing. From the reference below it appears
that oils are added to soften the natural resin which is very hard.
Different grades of rosin appear to have different kinds or levels
of softening agents added to them.
Another factor is that
bowing involves friction and friction involves heat. The heat
generated could be enough to execeed the Tg point of the rosin. Once
this happens the rosin is sticky. This effect could be amplified by
the pickup of moisture in the rosin as well. Both factors would tend
to allow the Tg to be lowered and then traversed while in the “heat”
of playing. I suspect that the friction (heat) factor is what causes
the rosin on the bow to become somewhat sticky and thereby “grip”
the string and a very necessary part of bow and sound dynamics. I
think it is significant that you experience this problem after
playing for a period of time when the rosin will have been “heated”
and cooled and thus softened and re-softened.
So this is my
long-winded explanation of what might be happening with your rosin
problem. I would suggest that with the harder the rosins i.e. higher
the glass point Tg or less added plasticizer, the less the problem
would occur. New rosin that has not had as much ability to pick up
moisture could also behave somewhat better as
well.
References:
A good article on bows: www.centrum.is/hansi/thebow.html
“Rosin is what makes the bow stick to the string until it slips
back in a continual cycle which generates the bowed sound. It is
made of colophony-the residue from the distillation of turpentine.
It comes in various grades depending on the type of distillation.
Pure colophony is far too brittle to use on it's own for violin
rosin and makes an unpleasant scratchy sound. Therefore it is
generally mixed with other substances to modify its consistency.
Most rosin will contain small amounts of oil to plasticize or soften
it and sometimes there are additions of alkaline solutions to
neutralize the colophony which is quite acid. The acidity of
colophony can be a hazard to the varnish if it is allowed to build
up on the instrument.”
The following is an article on the
structure of various kinds of bow hair not directly to do with rosin
but interesting. It relates to a previous thread we had going on bow
hair, some time ago.
iwk.mhsw.ac.at/english/re...owhair.htm
Terry
Edited by: TerryM
at: 5/14/01 2:22:36
pm
|
Len
Thompson
Registered User
Posts: 185
(5/14/01 4:06:28 pm)
Reply
|
Thinking out
loud!
Maybe this has already been said,in so many words, and thats where
I'm getting the idea, but here goes anyway. On the subject of rosin:
I hate the stuff. It's sticky, nasty, dirt attracting goo, but
necessary. I have been with the crowd that says less is better, and
I may remain there but, I am trying the over rosining route for
awhile. My logic tells me that when you have your bow rosined to the
minimum, and you constantly wipe your strings, you only have a
minimum of playability before things will start to go south. This
would be especially true if the rosin is in fact melting around the
string causing a film, that with so little rosin on your bow, you
can't cut through. Your bow starts to skate/slip rather than
catch/pull and release. By applying enough rosin, you effectivly
overcoat this slick melted rosin on the string, and your bow
continues to grab the string. Also when wipeing the string it
shouldn't be necessary to remove every bit of rosin, only the bulk
on the surface, with a quick and gentle swipe or two. I consider
this to be over rosining my bow, but so far things are better, but
it's not conclusive yet. I have to face it, that this sticky mess is
here to stay. Well that's what I'm thinking! Course I could be WAY
WRONG!
Len
|
Andrew
Victor
Registered User
Posts: 305
(5/14/01 4:23:28 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Rosin
problem / Test Results
Dick, thanks for the test suggestions. Here are the results. Can
you draw any conclusions from them.
1) When I leave the
instrument and bow for 10 minutes and then play again, the problem
is gone, but returns again faster than it first did when I started
with clean strings.
2) I can't find consistency, but I first
notice it when I need credible sound out of little bow motion (often
rapid string crossings) and so many of these are high up. But when
that happens, I also find it hard to get a good sound down low, and
have to move away from the bridge and toward the fingerboard -- and
on my cello I can't do that well (at least on the G string) if my
left fingers are up above the first octave. This problem has been
most annoying in chamber music, when I can't stop (except just
enough to wipe the strings). I don't play cello in orchestra (except
with years between each occurrence). When it happens in my own
practice sessions, of course I can stop and deal with it.
3)
The onset of the problem is gradual - to the extent that it develops
over a few seconds - but then reaches a level of badness and seems
to stay there.
4) If the problem starts with one bow, it
still exists when I move to another bow - indicating to me that it
is likely in the strings.
5) I rosin starting at the frog
and pulling down bow (or moving the rosin toward the tip). I press
just hard enough that I can feel if the surfaces are sliding or
gripping. If there seems to be sliding without gripping, I change
the direction of motion and rosin near the frog until I feel the
friction. Then I move toward the tip over a period of 1 or 2
seconds. At the tip I reversed direction. If there is slipping I
repeat the motion I used at the frog, and then finally upbow, or
move the rosin toward the frog - and I'm done. If I felt any
slippage during the "long bow" I will try to touch that up - but
that usually doesn't happen.
I rosin violin and viola bows
the same way. But I don't have any similar problem (especially with
violin playing).
ALSO - I tried rosining the bow (after the
manner of Laura's teacher) when the problem occurred, instead of
wiping off the strings, and this elimated the problem too, but only
for a short time (shorter than getting the strings real clean, but
about as well as wiping them with a dry cloth).
Andy
|
Andrew
Victor
Registered User
Posts: 306
(5/14/01 4:39:41 pm)
Reply
|
Terry &
Len
I'm still thinking about what you have both written.
In
part, at least, my symptoms are the ones you get from bowing with
too much pressure, but once these start - it does not take much
pressure to retain the problem.
When you bow with too much
pressure, you pull the string beyond the "proper" release point for
each vibrational cycle. Perhaps I have gotten my rosin into a state
where the difference between static and sliding friction is not
great enough. Is the static friction too low, or is the sliding
friction too high? That would be consistent with the lowered Tg,
Terry, as you've described it. Or is that not it?
My tests
today were done after applying Hills' light rosin to two bows (of
course old goop was on the hairs already).
Next I'll try a
different cello.--(LATER-- It happened with the different cello
(with different brands of strings and two different bows).
Andy
Edited by: Andrew
Victor at: 5/15/01 9:05:07 am
|
Dick500
Registered
User
Posts: 89
(5/15/01 9:37:50
am)
Reply
|
Re: Test
results
Andy--
From a strictly mechanical/equipment point of view,
there are three factors at work--the rosin itself, the rosin buildup
on the strings, and the rosin buildup on the hair. I was very
interested in Terry's points about the various states of rosin and
its being temperature and humidity sensitive. (He is a wealth of
information.) The point has been made by at least one of us (pardon
me for not remembering exactly who at the moment) that rosin buildup
especially on the sides and underside of the strings will definitely
detract from tone quality. Additionally, our bow technician here has
often made reference to bow hair losing its ability to hold rosin;,
and hence effectiveness, when it (the hair) gets "glazed" (his word
and very interesting parallel to Terry's points).
I should
have thought to ask you about a few other points like the age of
your bow hair, but I feel confident that you, of all people, would
get your bows rehaired regularly, so I feel fairly confident in
eliminating rosin-glazed hair from consideration. That leaves rosin
buildup on the strings and the actual rosin itself.
It has
been my personal experience that serious tone-debilitating rosin
buildup on the strings is not prone to sudden onset. Rosin of the
powdery sort that is noticeable on strings after about an hour or so
of playing generally doesn't adversely affect the tone in the same
fashion as does that cement-like material often found on the strings
of an instrument the welfare of which is studiously ignored by a
less-than-inspired teenager, for example. You know, the stuff that
comes off with that horrible "skreeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" sound and only
with a great deal of thumb-forefinger pressure on the rag. That
doesn't sound like your equipment maintenance style
either.
That eliminated, we next consider the rosin itself. A
fresh coating of rosin, no matter how old/hard/etc, on the bow hair
should grip the strings. Here, you provide conflicting data from
your tests. Upon initially beginning to play, a freshly-rosined bow
grips the strings. Upon playing for an hour, another freshly-rosined
bow does not grip the strings. If the rosin were waterlogged, I
would expect it to at least play for a while before it, too, failed.
This does not seme to be the case.
There is, then, perhaps
another variable to consider. That is the amount of tension you
store in your bow arm (the entire system from your fingertips up
through your upper back) after playing the cello for an hour or so,
especially when you are in a performance situation like playing
chamber music where you don't have the luxury of stopping when you
you feel like it. Things you have observed lead me to at least
entertain the idea that your tone problems may be technical in
nature--observed sudden onset (we seldon notice muscle tension until
it affects our activities), concidence with small motion control
(muscle tension can often be ignored when doing large motions),
elimination by change of right-hand activity (e.g. wiping off the
strings or other activity unlike holding on to the bow), and
elimination by taking a break. All of this, coupled with your
observation that you are not plagued with tone problems when playing
the violin and viola (they both use rosin as well, and, I suspect,
you might be using at least some of the same rosins from your
collection with them). My suspicion is that your well-developed
violin/viola bow arm might be doing something wrong on the
cello.
Of course, I am not there to watch, but I have seen
and heard similar scenarios in my teaching studio. Faced with
developing fatigue or music which they find hard, an adult student
will tense up without realizing it, start to sound tight and (fill
in any other non-pleasing tone word), and then, will only sound
better when told to relax or when they stop to shake out or
otherwise relax the tension in their arms and hands which they, in
the concentration of the moment, do not associate with their tone
problem. They generally become much better in assessing their
tension troubles when they start to make a habit of checking in with
themselves and seeing/feeling if their
shoulders/elbows/wrists/knuckles are held up too high and/or if the
big muscle at the base of the thumb is tight and gladly welcomes a
massage.
Just a thought, but it would be well worth
experimenting in that direction. I eagerly await your next
observations.
--Dick--
|
TerryM
Registered User
Posts: 394
(5/15/01 11:24:04 am)
Reply
|
Re: Test
results
Dick you have some very interesting thoughts about the possible
combination of problems. As with all things cello related there does
not seem to be simple answers to most questions.
I have done
some further digging for information on rosin and it would seem that
it is indeed a glassy polymer, somewhat complex in its makeup. I
have e-mailed several primary producers of rosin who might have some
detailed information available. I feel sure that someone, somewhere
has done a in-depth study of the physico-chemical makeup and
behavior of rosin on bows. At any rate, the following might be of
interest.
www.users.qwest.net/~quinnt01/
This
company offers synthetic rosin that make claims to get around some
of the functional problems Andy may be facing. They claim that rosin
does indeed pickup moisture in that rosin is hydrophilic i.e. water
loving and the pickup of moisture will change its tack.
I
have also found that the softening point of rosin is about 75-80
degrees C or about 170 degrees F. This seems a bit high for an
effect on the string, as I previously speculated, but it would be
interesting to find out how much localized heat or temperature rise
is produced in bowing.
It does seem that oils are added to
pure rosin, which is very hard, to soften it and make it functional
in bowing. Oil buildup over time would probably be one of the major
causes of bow hair "wearing out" and why bows need to be rehaired or
at least cleaned. I was also wondering, that since rosin is derived
from the manufacture of turpentine, if turpentine could be used to
clean the wood of bows that have a build-up of rosin. Turpentine
does not, as far as I know, affect varnish. Perhaps Dick would have
some thoughts on this. Turpentine is somewhat "oily" however and
would not be suitable to clean bow hair in my opinion.
Rosin
is also known as “colophony” and is a known allergen for some
individuals. See more about it at:
www.truetest.com/templates/7.html
Hope
this helps.
Terry
|
Dick500
Registered
User
Posts: 90
(5/15/01 3:44:39
pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Turpentine
Terry--
I'm not keen on using turpentine on a bow. First,
there is the smell. Then there is the fact that a lot of the shine
on a lot of bow sticks is the result of French polish (the
application of shellac with a mixture of alcohol and mineral
spirits) which turpentine could cut unevenly, necessitating another
French polishing. Rosin is dissolved quite readily by xylene (very
volatile, carcinogenic, therefore unhealthy to use, especially
without adequate ventilation) and reasonably well by mineral spirits
(which is a lot less volitile, therefore much safer health-wise, and
doesn't smell).
Cleaning bow hair with some sort of oil is
all right, I would imagine, if the hair were still attached to the
horse. I'm thinking some sort of cream rinse following the herbal
shampoo assuming the horse was cooperative, of course. Just kidding.
Actually, horsehair is pretty oily right off the horse and needs to
be washed quite thoroughly in order to make it useable. Cleaning
rosin off the hair with oil while it is on the bow would necessitate
a thorough washing with soap and water while the hair is also on the
bow. I envision the water wicking up the hair and into both the tip
and the frog possibly splitting them both or causing some other
havoc. I have heard of people washing the synthetic hair on Glasser
bows--not much there to damage--since the price of a new bow is
exceeded by the price of a rehair. Otherwise, if the bow is not
priced as a disposable, I'd recommend getting it rehaired and
keeping any sort of liquid (solvent or not) away from the hair like
the plague.
--Dick--
|
TerryM
Registered User
Posts: 397
(5/15/01 3:59:25 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Turpentine
Dick
Thanks for the good advice, as usual. I feel the same
way about cleaning bow hair. Why risk an expensive bow for the price
of a re-hairing job? You are right about the smell of turpentine. I
have used mineral spirits to clean the sticks of old, but not
expensive, bows with some success.
Terry
|
 Steve
Drake
Registered User
Posts: 320
(5/15/01 7:05:02 pm)
Reply
Community Supporter
|
ClearToneä
Rosin?
Any idea where this rosin is available?
My MP3's
My Cello
Homepage |
TerryM
Registered User
Posts: 398
(5/15/01 10:39:32 pm)
Reply
|
Re: ClearTone
Rosin?
I did an extensive search and could not find anything on ClearTone
rosin. I sent an e-mail to Quinn Violins, because of the Quinn in
the URL of the page that described it. This is a long shot at best.
I will continue to look.
Terry
|
Andrew
Victor
Registered User
Posts: 308
(5/17/01 8:24:27 am)
Reply
|
At last, I think
I know what's happening!
Putting together what everyone has told me, after changing some
strings, totally cleaning all rosin off two bows and trying
something else - I think I know what is happening.
I think my
rosin has been failing by reducing the static friction between my
bow and strings to the extent that I been increasing the bow force
(pressure) to retain sound level. The result has been that I've even
exceeded the sliding friction and am getting the sound typical of
"bowing too hard."
I took off the last two Obligato strings
(A & D) left on this cello, and replaced them with the Belcanto
Golds that had previously been on - but the problems would still
come back. And, it's true, I would previously get this problem while
playing chamber music, even with the Belcanto Golds.
Then,
after removing all old rosin from strings (again) and two bows, I
rosined with Pirastro Goldflex - reasoning that perhaps the
purported "gold flecks" have a static gripping mechanism that is
less likely to fail. (I had previously quit using this rosin brand
on violin bows because my eyes are sensitive to it - a problem it
took several months to resolve, but perhaps the rosin dust will stay
out of my eyes if its source is a couple of feet below
them.)
Well at least so far, the tone has held. We'll see
what happens at piano quartets today.
[ADDENDUM, 5/18/01 --
Well, no problems at piano quartets yesterday. The orignal rosining
with Goldflex held. I did wipe strings, routinely, a couple of times
between movements while I played (almost 2 hours), but I was able to
maintain clear tone and good volume with minimal bow pressure. The
room accoustics do make a big difference - at home I play in 12x12'
"padded" room, and we do our piano quartets against one wall of a
~25 x 35' room with a bare-wood cathedral ceiling (some distance up
there).]
Andy
Edited by: Andrew
Victor at: 5/18/01 11:02:31 am
|
TerryM
Registered User
Posts: 399
(5/17/01 4:34:13 pm)
Reply
|
Update on
ClearTone Rosin and Another Brand
Andy, I am glad to hear that your rosin problems are sorting out. I
have been doing some additional looking on the internet.
Steve, it appears that, as of January 2001, the ClearTone
Rosin is not commercially available. I have sent an e-mail to the
person who has been making test quantities of this synthetic rosin
and hope to hear back from him soon. His name is Tom Quinn and he is
a violinist and a chemist as well. He claims that it works as well
as commercial rosins and does not have allergenic side-effects. He
is presently looking for a commercial partner to produce and sell
the rosin.
I have also found information that would indicate
that rosin, being a natural product, is really quite variable and
that variation from cake to cake, from the same supplier, is highly
probable. I am not sure what quality control rosin companies would
have over this variablity. Rosin apparently oxidizes very readily
and loses its griping ability, thus aging could be a factor.
I also came across another rosin by the name of Liebenzeller
Silver, I and II and also Liebenzeller Gold. This rosin, was claimed
by a user on a Usnet thread, to remain on the bow and not to build
up on strings. It is expensive, at $19.50 a cake, but it may be
worth trying. You can buy it at Music City Strings in Rockport
Maine. On their order page, they ask you to specify between Silver
type I and II, but do not indicate what the difference between them
is. This rosin can be found on their website at this URL, at the
bottom of the page:
www.musiccitystrings.com/chin.html
It
may be available at other shops as well.
I will post a reply
from Tom Quinn on ClearTone rosin, should I hear from
him.
Terry
|
Bobbie
Registered
User
Posts: 415
(5/17/01 5:42:52
pm)
Reply
|
Liebenzeller
I am trying Liebenzeller Gold III and I like it a lot. I like it
more than Pirastro Goldflex and it has none of the irritant quality
of that rosin. I can't say that none of it sticks to the strings but
probably less of it does. I found in hot weather that I needed a
softer rosin so I'm ready to spring for a dark Liebenzeller. Ellen
has a variety at Cellos2Go for $18 and considering how long rosin
lasts, I'd say it is worth it. The question arose about what good
the metal does in the rosin, but having read the post about rosin's
structure, I think it probably just affects the melting point so
that the rosin is softer without the stickier characteristics of a
softer polymer. I'd stay away from Liebenzeller Lead rosin, though I
don't know what the lead content is.
Edited by: Bobbie
at: 5/17/01 5:44:02
pm
| |
Internet Cello Society
Forums
Email
This To a Friend
Topic Commands (Moderator only)