| Author |
Comment |
DavidS000
Registered
User
Posts: 14
(2/28/01 9:35:30
pm)
Reply
|
Playing from
memory versus using sheet music
Are there any advantages in memorizing a piece of music or is it
better to refer to the sheet music when playing? And, if playing
from memory, what should guide a musician through a piece, the ear
or the eye?
|
mcello
Registered
User
Posts: 50
(3/1/01 8:50:22
am)
Reply
|
It depends on
what you are playing
There are some pieces, such as cello-piano sonatas that it is
really better to use the music, unless you have a brilliant memory.
Concertos, short pieces,etc. really need to be memorized. But even
if I use music, I still know the piece very well and probably could
do it without the music, and the sheet music is not the center of
the performance! When I use music, I put the stand as low as
possible and to the side and work to interact with the audience, not
the music on the stand. This means that you must still know your
piece exceptionally well. There's nothing more boring than to watch
a performer sit behind a stand and only see the top of his head--it
doesn't hold the audience's interest for long!
I recently
attended a master class with Colin Carr and he emphasized the
"choreography" of what we play. I think this is part of what makes
great performers. They are not afraid to interact with the audience
and give the audience more than just the notes they are playing.
|
Daniel
Ortbals 
Registered User
Posts: 163
(3/1/01 2:16:16 pm)
Reply
 |
Re: Playing from
memory versus using sheet music
When it comes to the solo/concerto literature, I say it's far more
exciting to memorize the piece. You can really take it to a high
level when at any time of the day you can walk down the street and
sing the music in your head. When memorizing, say, a Bach suite, the
simple act of committing the music to memory forces you to
understand and discover things about the music you never thought
"important." Plus, the performance of the piece then ceases to be a
"reading" for the audience, and becomes more of a chain of thought
processes. Pretty analogous to a dramatic reading versus a memorized
monologue. When performing the music from memory, I say don't try
"seeing" it in your mind's eye, rather simply THINK it and it will
happen. If you try to visualize the notes on the page, you may as
well have the music in front of you, since the act of visualizing
something is almost identical to actually seeing it (that is, your
brain seems to think so). So, in order to truly KNOW the music, you
have to simply be able to think it. It's far more exciting, IMO.
Alright, gotta go.
Dan
O |
Tim
Janof
Administrator
Posts: 191
(3/1/01 7:23:13 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Playing from
memory versus using sheet music
There's an article in the latest Strad Magazine about this very
issue. It's written by cellist Laurinel Owen.
|
DavidS000
Registered
User
Posts: 15
(3/1/01 9:47:19
pm)
Reply
|
What does
Laurinel Owen have to say about it?
What does Laurinel Owen have to say about it?
|
BA
Registered
User
Posts: 165
(3/2/01 1:19:43
am)
Reply
|
Re: Playing from
memory versus using sheet music
I find it rather insulting and classless that soloists often use
the music for concertos these days. Even the most common concerti at
the most prestigious dates. Watched Gidon Kremer read his way
through Tchaikovsky at Carnegeie a few years back. Starker used
music for Schelomo recently- I mean come on- how many times has he
played that?
The experience of playing from the music is
different- for the performer and for the audience. There may be
times when music is necessary, but I don't understand the modern
concerto reading disease. I have used music for Don Quixote and
Brahms Double, but both times in retrospect I wished I had taken the
extra trouble to play it from memory.
Hmm.. hope I haven't
cursed myself to have a memory slip now! knock wood ;-)
|
zambocello
Registered
User
Posts: 463
(3/2/01 3:05:24
am)
Reply
|
memory versus
reading
I intend to always play by memory except in chamber music,
including duo cello/piano sonatas. Especially for the cello, a music
stand gets in the way of the audience.
And, unless you put
the stand to one side, it can make a difference in sound, too. The
first time I played the 5th Bach Suite was on an all-Bach program.
The first 2 suites I played by memory. The 5th Suite I used the
music, because of insecurity. Even though I played in the same way,
the recording levels were noticeably lower.
Some modern
pieces are too much for me to play by memory. My greatest exploits
(not of music making, but of exercising the memory muscles) have
been the Schuller Fantasy and the Irino Three Pieces by
heart.
Some of my most monumental screw ups have been from
playing with the music and getting lost as I "transfer" from memory
back to the printed page.
|
CatMarieS
Registered
User
Posts: 12
(5/22/01 8:17:58
pm)
Reply
|
Here's what I
do.
I usually like to memorise a peice as long as it is no longer than
two pages (I memories two pages once!) and then use the sheet music.
You know, I want to be alert at all times, looking at the conductor,
my fingers and stuff. And then if I get stuck I can look at my
music!  with really
long peices, I usually memorize the super easy and super hard parts.
|
Ponticello
Registered User
Posts: 111
(5/23/01 2:57:22 am)
Reply
|
Memorizing
This is my 2nd year playing cello, 4th yr playing a string
instrument, and last year I decided I would not perform with music
unless it was chamber music. I know a lot of people perform sonata's
with piano with music, but I choose not to. Why is it that so many
people use music in that circumstance.? It's just you as the soloist
with piano accompaniement.
the're a big graduating senior recital
at my college this saturday and I'll be playing the 1st movement of
the Kodaly sonata from memory. I already did this two weeks ago for
my end of semester recital and got through it without any slip ups
(due to being musicless that is), but this concert coming up will
have a packed concert hall with parents, faculty, etc, and I'm so
scared my nerves will get to me.
But I agree with other
people, I think it's kind of tasteless for professionals to play
concertos wih music. Speaking of which, what about the Brahms
Double, Beethoven Triple. Do people think that's not too much like
chamber music that the players should do it from mememory? just
wondering
|
MsCheryl
.gif)
Registered User
Posts: 220
(5/23/01 8:16:40 am)
Reply
|
Re: Playing from
memory versus using sheet music
Actually, I would prefer to have people use music - I get too tense
watching people without music, wondering if they will get through
without a memory slip - I would rather enjoy the performance than
worry. It's sort of like watching skaters do those flippy things - I
get tense then as well and don't enjoy the good executions because I
am too busy wondering if they will make it or not. I understand the
whole stand thing and the fact that memorizing correctly just means
that you've absorbed the piece and made it your own - it's just my
personal foible. (I also hate playing for memory - my brain keeps
getting in the way ala The Inner Game of Music - I am getting better
as I play around with improvising and realizing not everything has
to be absolutely note perfect).
|
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1306
(5/23/01 5:25:08 pm)
Reply
 |
Re: Playing from
memory versus using sheet music
I agree with BA...if you are going to play a standard concerto, you
should be so prepared that you can play it by memory.
But
being a poor memorizer myself these days, I guess I can understand
that given the choice of possibly having amemory slip and using the
music, I'd rather use the music.
My memory isn't all that
great these days because I have so little time to practice and
sleep. But if I were a full time musician, I'd not allow myself such
an excuse.
I've never played a concerto with music though. I
don't think I would feel right.
As for recitals... I really
do wish I could play by memory. I hate looking at music, it's
distracting. I have to have it memorized anyway. But I'm not secure
enough to play a recital by memory yet.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's Photo
Albums
Free Cello
Music!
|
G
M Stucka
Registered User
Posts: 581
(5/23/01 5:40:04 pm)
Reply
|
Memorization
I played my Stock Concerto performances with music. The piece is
quite complicated, harmonically, and I'm an orchestral musician by
trade, not a professional soloist. My performance with orch. was
with an amateur orchestra. Tho they handled the piece quite well, I
wanted to have the music open in case something went wrong. If I
ever got a chance to play the piece with "big shots" (...:
>)...), I'd definitely try to memorize it.
|
zambocello
Registered
User
Posts: 599
(5/24/01 1:57:32
am)
Reply
|
For your own
health and longevity.................
.........don't refer to your sonata partners as accompanists! 
|
zambocello
Registered
User
Posts: 600
(5/24/01 2:01:17
am)
Reply
|
Stock
I was playing a gig the other day (in the slums of Bel Air) at a
musician's house. There on the book shelf was a volume of CSO
programs from the 1938-39 season. The first page I cracked it open
to was 3/9/39!!
|
Sasha
A M
Registered User
Posts: 40
(5/24/01 7:25:16 am)
Reply
|
good points in
playing with music
i agree!
if i go to a concert and theres a soloist playing
without music, he/she must really convince me in the first couple of
minutes, or then ill have sweaty hands through the concert.
a
year ago frans helmerson played elgar concerto here in finland. he
screwed up in the first movement, and that was obviously a memory
slip. it ruined the whole performance for me, and in the last
movement there was some slips as well... i hated the feeling - to be
afraid of a famous "star cellist" making mistakes.
there is
this famous soloist, anssi karttunen, in finland, who has always the
music with him on a low stand, whatever the concerto or sonata is.
he has said in an interwiev, that he knows most of the pieces by
heart, but that he thinks it is performers responsibility to not
take risks in expense of the audience. he says he doesnt know when
he has a terrible headache in the midst of playing or some mental
disorder, and that is why he keeps music always at hand.
i
like to perform without the music, but then i must be really secure
of myself, so that in coming to the stage im able to convince the
audience. not so often at recent times...
sasha
|
JanJan2
Registered
User
Posts: 153
(5/24/01 8:56:44
am)
Reply
|
Okay, now
this'll sound really dumb, but . . .
do soloists of this calibre who have music in front of them actually
follow the music? What about page turns? I have the Yo-Yo Ma at
Tanglewood video, which includes a performance with Ax of Beethoven
Sonata Op. 5 No. 2. Ma has a low stand in front of him with music,
but he never appears to look at it or turn pages. Is it really just
a security blanket? I mean, what if, well into the piece, you
actually NEED the music, and you're on the wrong page!! What a
nightmare to be sitting there flipping for the right spot!!
Janet |
 Steve
Drake
Registered User
Posts: 336
(5/24/01 1:38:14 pm)
Reply
Community Supporter
|
Re: Playing from
memory versus using sheet music
I tend to play most stuff from memory, even in the orchestra. I got
berated once after playing a sonata from memory once, about how it
was chamber music, and I shouldn't have been showing off like that.
Nonsense. I've always found memorization to be easy, but one
certainly shouldn't be ashamed to play with music if you think you
need it.
I like what Sigfried Palm once said about
performing modern music - he always has the music on a stand with
him, even if he doesn't need it, as it makes his performances of
otherwise unknown music more legit. Those couldn't be wrong notes,
he had the music right there!
My MP3's
My Cello
Homepage |
zambocello
Registered
User
Posts: 601
(5/24/01 7:31:18
pm)
Reply
|
Playing by
memory in chamber music.
Wouldn't it be odd for 1/2 a string quartet to play by memory? Or
for the clarinetist to play from memory but the cellist and pianist
use music in the Brahms Trio? Similarly, I think it is "polite" and
avoids one-upmanship for sonata players to use music.
(Very
much tongue in cheek If your
sonata pianist/partner doesn't care that you play by memory you are
either paying way to much for the "accompaniment" or you need a
better pianist!
The
question is, what to do with the music stand? It gets in the way of
cellists more than any other instrumentalist. For sonatas and other
non memorized repertoire I always use a low stand.
|
BA
Registered
User
Posts: 190
(5/25/01 1:51:12
am)
Reply
|
attack of the
PC
With much sincere respect, I feel both the idea that memorization
is 'showing off' and the idea that the pianist is made to look
inferior for playing with the music is just PC nonsense. We play
different instruments in different ways. Memorization for the
cellist is a fundamentaly diferent thing than for the pianist. The
pianist has 10 times as many notes. Memorization also has a
different effect for the cellist than for the pianist. We cellists
play better from memory- why must we ruin the stage visual and block
our sound? When did this idea take hold? Should we not slide and
vibrate as well to avoid 'showing off' because our 'partners' do
not? Should singers use music for song cycles now or are these not
chamber music? The string quartet analogy doesn't work, because the
way and the material the piano plays is fundamentally different from
the cello. When did what was once considered a basic requirement of
competence in string players become 'showing off'?!!
My wife
is also a pianist- a very accomplished one, if I may kvell a bit.
She's recorded concerti with the Leonard Slatkin and the
Philharmonia for BMG and played with the LA Phil and National
Symphony among many others. She does not feel 'inferior' when I play
sonatas from memory and I can't imagine anyone thinking less of her
for not. Respectfully- BA
|
Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1322
(5/25/01 3:05:01 pm)
Reply
|
Re: attack of
the PC
(At first, I thought BA was talking about a new computer
virus)
I agree with BA. Any pianist who thinks that the
cellist memorizing his/her part is showing off is just jealous and
insecure. It doesn't show anyone up. The motivation is to make for a
better performance. If one or both musicians can do it, why not?
Ardyth Alton (bless her heart) used to be in a piano trio whose
members all memorized their parts. Isn't that great? I wish I could
do that!
I know BA's wife (we went to MSM together) and he
is not exaggerating one bit. She is by far one of the finest
pianists I've ever had the priveledge of knowing. She knocked all of
our socks off at her Freshman recital where she performed both
volumes of the Brahms Paganini variations (48 total?) and the Barber
Fugue. She didn't miss a note and she played beautifully (by
memory!!!).
Unfortunately the only piece I ever played with
her was the Swan, but that was fun too.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's Photo
Albums
Free Cello
Music!
|
zambocello
Registered
User
Posts: 609
(5/28/01 2:53:49
am)
Reply
|
Me, PC? Hoo
Ha!
The point really isn't politeness. It's making good music.
(Please don't feel that I am condescending. My "tone" is not
so pedantic as my text.)
If no one's looking it doesn't
matter who's reading what while they play. But people do look at
concerts. Therefore the troublesome music stand for recital
cellists. And therefore the desire on my part to create both the
sonic and visual image of equals partners in duo pieces with piano.
It's undeniable that audiences let visuals affect their
listening impression. I recently experienced a reminder of this. As
part of a mixed recital program I played a solo piece by memory.
Another player played a better solo piece and played better than I,
but because he used the music, many in the audience were less "sold"
by his piece/performance than by mine.
Now this situation
isn't 100% analogous to the cello and piano situation, just as the
string quartet situation is not. After all, the pianist sits
sideways to the audience and reads from a built in music rack, while
if the cellist uses the sturdy Manhasset it creates a real barrier
as he sits facing the audience.
My solution, though, is not
to eliminate the stand, but to use a stand that doesn't create a
barrier. By being on "equal terms" with the pianist in one more way
(by using the score), I feel I provide one less way for the audience
to be distracted from or self-misled about the nature and character
of the music.
(P. S.: Should we give up slides and vibrato?
At times, definitely so! -- even though they are cellistic and "feel
good." It drives me crazy to hear sonatas played by stringers who
seem unaware of the need to blend with the piano, though it is
incumbent on us to go more than 1/2 way when the music requires a
blended sound. Of course when I hear one of these performances and
it's played from memory you can imagine the nasty thoughts I have! 
)
Cheers!
Zambo
|
Internet Cello Society
Forums
Email
This To a Friend
Topic Commands (Moderator only)