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RebeccaCello
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Posts: 56
(5/30/01 11:50:39
am)
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Playing
levels
Hi, I was wondering how many pieces of a certain level a cellist
has to be able to play to be considered to have reached that level.
Over here we have music grade exams for which you only have to be
able to play 3 pieces which doesn't seem enough, especially for the
higher grades.
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BettyLou
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User
Posts: 44
(5/30/01 12:46:23
pm)
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Playing
levels
Dear inquisitive, RebeccaCello,
Here in the States, it's not
like climbing a ladder to see how high one can go. Students play a
"jury" for a panel at the end of each semester, and are judged on
many factors. None of them are "they got through the designated
piece", although sometimes jury evaluations can run along those
lines!! Just because you "play" a piece, it doesn't mean you "play"
it well.
I encourage you to consider tone quality, musical
phrasing, intonation and playing from the soul rather than seeing
what "level" you've reached or judging your progress on what piece
you've just scratched your way through.
One can pass a
driving test with a score of 70 out of 100 here in California--but
that doesn't mean you are a good driver!! (I got a 96,
btw.)
I can only imagine that at your tender young age of 23,
with limited life experience, your playing will only get better, and
will acquire more depth with additional life experience.
with
only the most caring intent,
BettyLou
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Ernie
Registered
User
Posts: 58
(5/30/01 2:07:06
pm)
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Re: Playing
levels
Rebecca: Where is "over here"?
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MsCheryl
Registered User
Posts: 231
(5/30/01 10:09:14 pm)
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Wow! A 96! I'm
impressed
Edited by: MsCheryl
at: 5/30/01
10:09:40 pm
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42
Registered
User
Posts: 182
(5/30/01 10:22:46
pm)
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Re: Playing
levels
I agree with everything you said BettyLou except just one little
thing (not everything then I admit)......
Why did you mention
life experience as something to give additional depth to your
playing? I'm not sure I can agree with this. First there are all of
the technical issues..... but even casting that aside what does my
life experience have to do with thedepth of my playing??
I'm
just not sure exactly what you are saying.... I am young (only 22)
but I think that I have plenty of life experience.....
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RebeccaCello
Registered
User
Posts: 57
(5/31/01 6:04:07
am)
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Intonation???
You don't pass grade exams unless you achieve those
things.
Bettylou, I don't understand why you are so patronising.
Why do you think that I'm "scratching my way through pieces"? Do you
honestly think that the most basic factors such as intonation and
tone quality are unknown to me? How can a person do anything but
consider the basics that you highlighted in your post. I think this
time I will be the one congratulating you on your remarkable grasp
of the obvious.
P.S. As far as intonation is concerned a person
cannot even pass a grade 1 exam (the easiest) unless they have a
good ear. Even if you play an instrument for which a good ear is not
so crucial (such as the piano) you cannot pass the exam unless you
pass the ear tests.
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etn69
Registered
User
Posts: 13
(5/31/01 6:46:13
am)
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Intonation,
depth of playing, and life experience
Life experience DOES indeed have an influence on your
playing
!
A very simple example, I was very shy when I was younger
-
hence my playing was also very shy. Now, due to my
life
experience (what else ?) I'm not so shy, and my
playing
developped in that sense.
I'm also convinced that
the mood can affect playing
to a large extent, too.
BTW,
one has never enough life experience - even at 99 !
;-)
Etienne
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MaryK
Registered User
Posts: 617
(5/31/01 2:08:17 pm)
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Re: Playing
levels
Re life experience -- it's one of those things you'll grok once you
have it. Am not trying to be nasty or anything, but IMO that's the
only way to say it, and the only way to understand it. Just wait
'til your late 30's, and once you're in your mid-40's you'll really
get it. But enjoy your 20's, do lotsa crazy and wonderful things
while you still can!
Cheers,
MaryK
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MaryK
Registered User
Posts: 618
(5/31/01 2:09:51 pm)
Reply
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Re:
Intonation???
Geeze, Rebecca, lighten up, BL's remarks can apply to any
cellist/musician, not just you. Believe it or not, Not Everything is
About You, even if you started the original
thread.
Cheers,
MaryK
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BettyLou
Registered
User
Posts: 47
(5/31/01 2:43:52
pm)
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Yep, she's right
ya know . . .
Dear sweetie RebeccaCello,
MaryK is right. At 23, what does
anyone know? Not much in my opinion. (I knew very little, looking
back.)
So you've been playing 20 months now, imagine how good
you'll be at 40 months, and 60 months!
After 20 months, and I
don't really want to be mean, since I haven't heard you, but unless
you are a wunderkind of some kind, scratching (and I use the term
loosely)one's way through a piece is the only thing one can do, give
or take. During the next many years of your life, things will happen
away from the cello that you'll be able to incorporate into your
performances.
I remember a very sad Hindemith piece I played
in my youth, and how much feeling I was able to put into one day
when I was angry and very sad. My teacher was stunned--"where did
that come from?" he asked. I responded, "from a very dark and lonely
place." Well, you need to go there more often, he said. I knew what
he meant, and have always remebered that breakthrough in my learning
process.
You seem fixated on rapid progress--like your
brother's girlfriend. She probably just "burned out", (from the
addage "burn bright, burn quick.")
It's not all about
"levels" and rapidly absorbed technical mastery, missy!! Slow down
and live!! See what life can bring to your cello--not the other way
'round.
with the utmost caring intent,
BettyLou
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rubycello
Registered
User
Posts: 4
(5/31/01 2:52:26
pm)
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Re: Playing
levels
Just a small point - people with unsound intonation and playing
have passed the grade exams (I presume your talking about ABRSM)
even grade 8. Also just because someone plays a piece in the exam
and passes doesn't mean they are playing it to a professional
standard, just to the standard of what is expected for that level of
exam. Grade exams are really just a minor part of being a musician.
I have to agree with BettyLou on this one.
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
Posts: 1340
(5/31/01 3:14:16 pm)
Reply
 |
Re: Intonation,
depth of playing, and life experience
Life experience definitely can help.
But what if you are a
person who has lived a relatively happy life? Does this mean you
can't play Kol Nidrei or the Elgar Concerto?
I think life
experience helps but is not the only way to play with depth. I think
what hasn't been mentioned (and what is more important than actual
life experience) is imagination.
I'll admit, I haven't had
that much tragedy in my life. Does that make me less profound or
less able to play tragic music? I hope not.
Think of empathy
or sympathy. If someone you know suffers an horrible loss (one that
you've been fortunate enough never to experiece) how do you
empathize? You try to imagine how you would feel if it happened to
you.
Here's an example. I inherited a couple of cello
students from a young cello teacher. She was pregnant with twins
around the same time that my wife and I were expecting our
son.
A couple of days after our son was born, we received
word that this nice young lady (in her first pregnancy) had lost
both babies at birth. My wife and I were shocked, heart-broken. We
both wept. While we were experiencing the most incredible joy ever,
we felt the pain of her incredible loss. I can't say I know how this
cello teacher and her husband must feel since it didn't happen to
us. But the mere act of imagining, or putting ourselves in their
shoes was enough to cause genuine emotion.
I hate to diminish
this tragedy by using it as an example. But what I'm trying to say
is that imagination can produce genuine emotion if the effort and
intention is sincere.
Part of being able to play music that
moves the hearts of your listeners has to do with the ability to be
moved ourselves.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's Photo
Albums
Free Cello
Music!
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BettyLou
Registered
User
Posts: 48
(5/31/01 4:09:57
pm)
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|
Nicely put
Paul!
Dear sweet, naive Paul,
That's exactly about which I speak,
(even if you did mention your progeny for the 100th time!!), your
example of how you reacted is something that life gives us (or death
as the matter may be) and we internalize it, and then can later
reflect upon it through our music if we so choose.
It sounds
as though you have had more joy in your life and I bet that you can
infuse joyous, heartlifting music further than those who have not
had your good fortune. Everyone has their niche! Not all cellists
are known for playing all types of music. It's nice to have the
market cornered on something. I am a fan of dark, brooding, complex
composers myself, yet have had a wonderful life (so
far).
RebeccaCello, dear, is this going over your head
love?
with all my love, and that's a lot of love,
Your
cellista,
BettyLou
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1342
(5/31/01 6:42:25 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Nicely put
Paul!
Thanks BettyLou,
Quote:
It sounds as though you have had more joy in your life and I bet
that you can infuse joyous, heartlifting music further than those
who have not had your good fortune. Everyone has their niche! Not
all cellists are known for playing all types of music. It's nice
to have the market cornered on something.
Actually, the opposite is
true. I don't play Haydn or Mozart well, joyous a life as I may have
had. I'd really rather listen to someone else play it. I'm not a big
"smiler" on stage like Yo Yo Ma. I have a serious and sometimes
intense look when I play and the likes of Shostakovich, late
Beethoven and Prokofiev are where I'm most comfortable. So that is
why I don't really agree with this formula of life experience is
what is necessary. It helps but it's not the ultimate factor of
emotional genuineness (yes, that's a word)
I don't think that
I have the market cornered on joyous playing (hmmm... or on
anything, for that matter.) In fact, if you've ever been to my
performances, you'd see that I'm much better at intensely passionate
and fierce as well as painfuly crying music than I am at light
hearted "happy" music. Sorry to reduce music into these silly
categories. My life's experience is only a part of it and doesn't
determine where my musical strengths or tendencies will be,
obviously.
So if I was unclear, what I was originally trying
to say is that life's experience is helpful but imagination is more
important. Being able to internalize something that perhaps was not
MY life's experiece (as in the sad example of I gave of the cello
teacher's loss). My point was to say that my reaction was not the
same as having actually experienced it myself. But to feel for
someone requires imagination. And to feel music which is tragic
(even though I've had a pretty happy life) doesn't require that I've
lived or experienced tragedy.
Quote:
I am a fan of dark, brooding, complex composers myself, yet have
had a wonderful life (so far).
I'm not sure if we're on the
same page here, but I'm not simply talking about being a fan of a
type of music, I'm talking about creating and re-creating it in a
genuine and sincere manner. Though I've had a pretty smooth and
tragedy free life, I want my emotions in tragic music to be genuine.
Being a fan of it is different. That is a matter of taste as a
listener or a performer. It is a matter of
preference.
I'm still not sure why you call me naive.
Is it because I'm willing to share from the heart? Is it because you
think I'm 20 something years old? (don't I wish!)
I'm older
than I look actually and this year if you round of by 5's I'm closer
to 40 years old than I am to 30!!!! (eek!)
Still, no matter
how old I get, I hope never to grow up. So if that's what makes me
naive in your eyes, so be it. 
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's Photo
Albums
Free Cello
Music!
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RebeccaCello
Registered
User
Posts: 61
(6/1/01 6:55:18
am)
Reply
|
Empathy v
Experience?
I agree with Paul, you don't need to experience something to be
able to empathise with it. I also think that life experience doesn't
always enrich empathy skills. For example, one of my friends has
been working in a hostel for the homeless in London since September
and has witnessed some awful things happen to the residents. She
recently confessed that she is becoming much less compassionate and
caring as a result of being there. I guess it's a way of protecting
herself, as she wouldn't be able to continue with her job if she
became too emotionally drained. I think this also tends to happen
with those in the medical profession. How many people have had bad
experiences with doctors or nurses? When my illness began it took me
months to sum up the courage to go to a doctor as I was convinced
that I had M.S. or mad cow disease (I was vegetarian but infected
material was used in vaccinations). I was having really horrible
symptoms: my hands, legs and face used to go numb and paralysised; I
had problems with vision; I had slurred speech and sounded as if I
was drunk; I used to go deaf and I was in a lot of pain. My regular
GP was away so I was forced to see the Cruella deVille of the
"caring profession", a really heinous bitch. Anyway, I had barely
said that my hands kept going paralysised when she looked me
straight in the eye and said: "What do you expect me to do about
it?" She is an exceptionally nasty piece of work; she walked up to
my gran (who is nearly 90) in a supermarket and said sarcastically:
"You're still alive then I see"!!!
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RebeccaCello
Registered
User
Posts: 63
(6/1/01 7:30:45
am)
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|
Re: Yep, she's
right ya know . . .
Bettylou, I wish I was fixated on fast progress. My teacher is
always lecturing me on how it is one thing to have talent but
another to have discipline. I am neither scratcher nor wunderkind.
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