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Nicholas
Anderson
Registered User
Posts: 72
(5/31/01 1:30:46 am)
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For BA, about
Gendron, etc.
Speaking of recordings of Gendron, I assume you're probably
familiar with the fascinating CD that was released in '98, of his
1952-53 recordings of the Brahms E Minor and Beethoven F Major and D
Major sonatas, with Jean Francaix at the piano. The performances are
from old archives of French radio broadcasts, recorded on 78's and
recently re-mastered for CD by the Institut National de
l'Audiovisuel. The playing is wonderful, and the CD booklet is also
really delightful - an extensive biography, with many very elegant
black-and-white photos going back to the 1950's, including with
Casals, Menuhin, etc. Valuable stuff that doesn't get discussed very
much.
Particularly noteworthy here is the involvement of Jean
Francaix, who wrote a number of cello works, including a
five-movement "Fantaisie" for cello and orch. or cello and piano,
which I feel is a truly great and unjustly neglected work. I don't
always like his music - too Poulenc-y at times - but this piece
really has something special, and it's amazing to me that cellists
hardly ever program it. I think it has all the qualities of the
finest French music, and is more substantial than a lot of what
*does* get programmed these days. The cello part to the Schott
publication of it was edited by Gendron; and this segues into
another interesting cello story.
The Fantaisie was recorded
back in the 60's on an unusual Deutsche Grammophon release sponsored
by the German government, with the cellist Anja Thauer, and Francaix
himself as pianist. She is a cellist about whom more should be said;
in this context, she was paired with Francaix, as Gendron had been
earlier. In fact, she was thought by many at the time to be one of
the most stupendous talents of that period. She had been in
Navarra's class at the Paris Conservatoire, and from reliable
anecdotal evidence, she was generally considered to have completely
eclipsed Jacqueline du Pré, (who arrived there slightly later to
work with Tortelier), in cellistic ability and consummate artistry.
I've heard Thauer's recording of the Fantaisie, and to me her
playing is absolutely extraordinary. What I wish I could hear is her
almost unfindable 1968 DGG recording of the Dvorak Concerto with the
Czech Philharmonic - the same orch. that recorded it with Casals,
Rostropovich, Fournier, Chuchro, etc. Apparently there are those who
are aware of Thauer's, because the few times it ever appears on
E-bay, it instantly gets snapped up for several hundred
dollars.
So, if Anja Thauer was that remarkable, what
happened to her? It's a Gothic story, and goes like this. It seems
that when she was around 30, she was having a torrid affair with a
married doctor, and she became so despondent about it that she took
her own life. Five days later, the doctor himself followed suit and
committed suicide, evidently out of combined shock and shame over
the whole thing. I mention this not for scandalous titillation, but
because of the comment it makes about an artist's almost total
obscurity. There are huge numbers of people, both in and out of
music, who know every lurid and prurient detail of the du Pré soap
opera, and we all know the minutiae of Feuermann's early death. Why
is the entire Thauer story so little known, even with its "human
interest" angle? It's certainly not due to lack of artistic
substance. There's some significant material here. What's wrong with
this picture?
I truly believe that the cello world has a
terrible case of "tunnel-vision" about the *big names* - it's as if
no one else exists. Of course, sometimes it's just a matter of
common sense that if a person isn't known, there's a valid reason
for it; but that's *sometimes,* not always! Just as we all know of
cellists who are famous and don't particularly deserve to be, there
are also those who are not famous and very much *do* deserve to be.
In fact, it may be more like an iceberg, "80 percent under." The
hidden ones are some of the most precious gems of the cello world,
and our ignorance of them is a tragic flaw. It's the point that's
most commonly missed. The old nonsense about the "cream rising to
the top" is a false analogy, a myth that should be exploded once and
for all. It's true of cream, but not of people, or music. Our cello
community fails to pay attention to a great deal of what actually
goes on, and we're very much impoverished as a result.
At any
rate - maybe one of our eminent record collectors or European
contributors will remember about Anja Thauer, and can shed some
further light for us on her brief and meteoric career.
-Nick
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BA
Registered
User
Posts: 197
(5/31/01 6:21:19
am)
Reply
|
Thanks
Lots of fascinating information. I have not heard that Gendron CD
(is it still available?) nor of Thauer. Interesting story- wonder if
Gary or Bob has this record... I have a few short pieces of Francaix
that didn't excite me much and pretty much let it go at that- would
like to hear the Fantaisie.
It is true that there is much
more good and deserving playing than is ever recognized. As we know,
success in this business relates to ability only to a certain point.
The thing is so few people really even understand the difference.
They need the trappings of fame to be secure in the knowledge that
what they have heard was world class. It takes so much knowledge and
work to understand- I am learning things every year that make me
hear differently what I missed or failed to understand before. I am
grateful to discover that the learning continues as I age, but
sometimes overwhelmed with what I realize I don't know. If it is
hard for us professionals, how can it be for 10-time-a-year
concertgoers? Or presenters or agents? Or even conductors- really
how many actually truly understand to the extent they
should?
And there is much talent out there. It is everywhere-
amazing endless talent. But the training- particularly when it comes
to understanding the language- is often haphazard. And then there is
the problem that talent needs the opportunity perform in order to
develop, but the opportunites are rare and monopolized by those more
advanced in stature. I heard Ralph Kirshbaum play a particularly
mediocre Dvorak in Dallas a year or so ago. I could not help but sit
and think of how many good players I know who play virtually unknown
in the nations orchestras and elsewhere who could have done so much
better justice to the work and the audience. Sorry to pick on him in
particular, as I've had the same feelings with several others. I
don't know what to make of this really. Music is a fickle mistress-
she cares only that it is right; that it is logical and utterly
beautiful. If we don't produce it, someone else will- it matters not
except that it is done right. She has no need or interest in our
egos or ambitions. Such a struggle to learn to produce something
with meaning and character in easch note and phrase.
Fame and
grand success in this marketplace are something else entirely- the
bottom line is really publicity=money. Fame for fame's sake. Zara
says that it was always thus. But comparing who was famous in her
world with who is famous in ours it is hard to believe that there
has not been some fundamental change. I have been reading Auer's
book on violin playing and am mesmerized by the chapter on nuance.
The way he describes music as an imitation of nature...Ok I'm
rambling- but thanks for the always interesting information and
leads.
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Nicholas
Anderson
Registered User
Posts: 74
(5/31/01 10:20:03 am)
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Precisely...
BA - Your commentary is marvelous, and right on the mark. I know
exactly what you mean about growth and learning, of a type that is
both open and yet rigorous at the same time - but it's "rare as
hen's teeth."
I don't know if that Gendron CD is still
available; I found it at Tower Records (Lincoln Center) a year or
two ago. It seems to have been produced in France by that "Institut"
I mentioned - and it says, "Diffusion sur la Chaine nationale,"
though I don't know if that refers to broadcast or CD
distribution.
I've been trying to avoid, *when possible,*
saying negative things about individuals - but I have to make an
incidental exception to that to express my strong agreement with you
about Ralph Kirshbaum - based on hearing him play, and also on a
master class I heard him give at Mannes. And yet, he's put himself
in a strategically brilliant position of glory and global adulation
with that Manchester festival. It just goes to support all the
points you're making.
What you said about music reminds me of
one of my favorite lines from Rilke - I'm not sure of the exact
words, but something like this: "If I don't manage to fly, somebody
else will. The spirit wants only that there be flying. As for who
happens to do it, in that, the spirit has only a passing interest."
The implications of the metaphor certainly apply to cello playing as
an art form, in the ways that you perceptively pointed out, and are
worth keeping in mind.
Thanks for the good discussion
-
-Nick
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DanK
Registered
User
Posts: 22
(5/31/01 12:10:38
pm)
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In Defense of
Mr. Kirshbaum
I wanted to opine on the attacks of Kirshbaum. While his playing
can be somewhat inconsistent at times, I have heard him play certain
pieces at certain times that are as well played as anyone I have
ever heard. Also, I think he is unsurpassed as a teacher...I have
been in masterclasses with him several times, and I have yet to meet
anyone who thinks as well and in as much detail about music as he
does. He is able to express things as a teacher better than pretty
much anyone else I have come across, and at least in those settings
his playing demonstrations are excellent. I am not saying I like
everything about him, but some of what was written is, in my
opinion, very unfair.
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Tim
Janof
Administrator
Posts: 233
(5/31/01 1:47:59 pm)
Reply
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Kirshbaum
Having attended two RNCM Cello Festivals, I can say with the utmost
conviction that Kirshbaum deserves nothing but praise for his
tireless efforts at organizing this GREATEST of cello festivals.
Kirshbaum has done magnificent things for the cello.
Do you
guys not like his recording of the Bach Suites?
Edited by: Tim
Janof at: 5/31/01 1:49:18 pm
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
Posts: 1336
(5/31/01 2:04:25 pm)
Reply
 |
Re:
Kirshbaum
This discussion is quite interesting, the initial one and the
residual topic of Kirshbaum.
BA, I was wondering how many
times you've heard Kirshbaum play. (I'm not contradicting your
opinion of his playing or agreeing either.) Is your opinion based on
that one performance of his Dvorak which you felt was mediocre? Or
is it based on many live performances and or recordings?
If
it was just that one performance, is it possible that he was having
an off day? After all, all performers have their off-days (I'm not
speaking of vacations).
I'd hate to be judged on one of my
off-day mediocre performances.
Personally, I don't know his
playing enough to have any opinion of his playing. I only heard him
demonstrate a few passages when I play Dvorak for him in a
masterclass. He sounded pretty good to me then. But this was back in
my school daze in the late 1980s.
I do agree with many other
points you made about marketing and the amount of talent that isn't
being trained well out there.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's Photo
Albums
Free Cello
Music!
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BA
Registered
User
Posts: 199
(6/1/01 2:56:09
am)
Reply
|
Kirshbaum
Actually I have heard Mr. Kirshbaum play many times, I would say
offhand at least five times, in New York and Aspen, and of course
recently in Dallas. I have played for him in masterclass at least
three times, and actually he has been very nice and friendly to me
so I feel bad about singling him out- I was looking for an example,
but he is only one of many. And a very sincere musician and nice
man, so although I stand by my opinion, it is hardly like he is the
only one or even an extreme example- he is not by the far the worst
example. He just came to mind.
I am going to try to learn
from Mr. Anderson's policy of avoiding mentioning anyone negatively
by name whenever possible. I think it distracts from the point more
than it illustrates it. But it is firmly in the old dog/new trick
category so don't expect miracles!
;-)
As to 'off days'-
I think we as cellists can quickly and easily separate those things
that are simply an 'off day' from what is indemic in the playing. So
much of what we think of as a 'bad day' is usually just little
details here and there. The big picture of our playing doesn't
really vary that much. How's the weather?- this is the time of year
I start to miss it... ;-)
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1344
(6/1/01 12:10:45 pm)
Reply
|
Re:
Kirshbaum
BA,
Thanks for clarifying and I competely agree with what
you say about being able to tell what is indemic and what is an off
day; especially when you are that familiar with his playing. As I
stated, I don't know his playing well enough to make any assessment
or have any opinions.
I have another thought (gripe) about
cello playing these days which I'll start another thread on.
The weather has been a bid cloudy here for the past few
weeks. The entire Memorial day weekend was cloudy. That was such a
bummer when we wanted to barbeque!
Thanks for emailing me
about where not to take my bow for rehairing. Egads, looks like I'll
have to fly back to NY or drive up to LA for bow rehairs! 
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's Photo
Albums
Free Cello
Music!
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Nicholas
Anderson
Registered User
Posts: 75
(6/1/01 12:26:17 pm)
Reply
|
Well said again,
BA
[This is in response to BA's last post that starts out, "Actually I
have heard Mr. Kirshbaum play many times..." - but this
now-technologically-messed-up board is threatening to put it under
the wrong post.]
More excellent points from BA. I'm going to
try to learn from my *own* policy. I just wanted to express
solidarity with what BA was saying; but this thread shows again that
the "ad hominem" thing does more harm than good. It's enough to make
one start dreaming of Krispy Kreme donuts! (i.e. - one has to choose
one's battles).
-Nick
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1346
(6/1/01 12:31:37 pm)
Reply
|
Ad
Hominem?
Please forgive my ignorance...
I would like to understand
your statement about the "ad hominem" thing doing more harm than
good.
The problem is, I don't know what "ad hominem" means
and what the thing is.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Alexander's Photo
Albums
Free Cello
Music!
|
drcello
Registered
User
Posts: 412
(6/1/01 12:49:47
pm)
Reply
| Edit
|
meaning of "ad
hominem"
If you are having a debate over a certain issue with a particular
person, and you are losing the debate because your logic or position
is weak, you may then launch an attack on the person you are
debating. Sometimes by attacking your opponent personally, you will
sway many weak-minded listeners that your own position is actually
correct. This is called the "ad hominem" technique of debate.
Useful, sometimes powerful, but not nice.
Marshall C. St. John
drcello@vei.net
Wayside Presbyterian Church
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BettyLou
Registered
User
Posts: 54
(6/1/01 12:56:47
pm)
Reply
|
Beautiful
thread, all!
Note to Paul: ad hominem ("to the man") appealing to a person's
feelings over intellect.
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dennisw
Registered
User
Posts: 191
(6/1/01 3:09:37
pm)
Reply
|
re: Off
Days
I'm not so sure I agree with you BA. I've heard recordings of J
DuPre on a really off day (Beethoven sonatas recorded live w/her
husband) and she sounded to me like a rank amateur. Yet her
recording of the Elgar concerto is magnificent.
WRT
Kirschbaum. I've never heard him play live. I have heard his
recordings of the 6 Bach Suites, which I think are worthy of note.
Hmm... perhaps you or Mr. Anderson have your own set of the suites
on CD as a comparison.
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Christopher
Chan
Registered User
Posts: 123
(6/2/01 12:52:58 am)
Reply
 |
Re: For BA,
about Gendron, etc.
The Gendron CD is still being sold, i visited the Virgin Records
Megastore in NYC yesterday, and they had a bunch of them. I wanted
to buy it, but I only had money for one CD and I wound up buying the
Navarra Bach suites.
I see that
it is now on sale at CDnow for $14.72, good thing i didn't buy it at
Virgin.
www.cdnow.com/cgi-bin/mserver/SID=1363007038/pagename=/RP/CDN/CLASS/muzealbum.html/itemid=1217489
Edited by: Christopher
Chan at: 6/2/01 12:57:34
am
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