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pogostick21
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User
Posts: 6
(5/25/01 4:32:02
pm)
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Anybody know of
any *easier* concertos?
Elgar is OK, but it's just too damn hard. Anybody know anything a
little less difficult than that piece that is actually nice?
Especially any for Cello and String Orchestra.
Thanks
Dave
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RebeccaCello
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User
Posts: 46
(5/25/01 4:52:20
pm)
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Why not
try......
Hi Pogostick, why don't you try the Monn concerto in G Minor, it's
really nice and not too difficult (Jackie duPre recorded it). I've
got the universal edition which I had to wait bloody ages for. You
could also try the Vivaldi concerto in A Minor (rv 41 . Whatever
you do don't buy "Vivaldi 6 great cello concertos", it's an ironic
(I'm learning) title.
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Anna
List
Registered User
Posts: 29
(5/25/01 5:54:14 pm)
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easy???
Hey!
One could think you're talking about shoes, pants or
teenager-magazines ("Elgar is O.K., but too damn hard...") - like
"should I take the pink or the brown pants? Mmmh, the brown one is
just too damn small"...
I think one should not take classical
music too serious, and there IS bad calssical music. But don't loose
the respect for a composer's work!
But, being earnest  :
Of
course there are concertos that are "easy": Monn, Saint-Saens No. 1,
Haydn C-Major, the Stamitz concertos etc. But I think, if you want
to play them really good, there are no "easy" concertos.
Have
fun!
Anna
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AaronReeves
Registered
User
Posts: 160
(5/25/01 7:09:56
pm)
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Pink pants? Who
wears pink pants?
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RebeccaCello
Registered
User
Posts: 47
(5/27/01 3:50:48
am)
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Is the
Saint-Saens easy?
It sounds so hard, harder than the Elgar.
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danielemanuel
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User
Posts: 48
(5/27/01 4:07:36
am)
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Re: Anybody know
of any *easier* concertos?
Hmmm... actually nice concertos?
I would say the CPE Bach A
minor concerto. It is not especially difficult - and it is very
'dramatic'.
Other easy concertos are the ones by Carl Stamitz
- but they aren't *SO* nice..
I must say that the Leopold
Hofmann concerto in C (Badley C1) which is availabe at http://www.artaria.com/Catalogue/Concertos.htm#Hofmann,
Leopold
really has a VERY catchy first movement, and is my
favourite among Hofmann's concertos.
Then there is the
concerto attributed to Michael Haydn, that as far as I know hasn't
been recorded yet.. It is REALLY good with a lot of nice
melodies.
\Daniel
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Alex
Registered
User
Posts: 2
(5/27/01 7:59:36
am)
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Re: Why not
try......
I quite like the Vivaldi Double Concerto (although obviously you
need someone else to play with) it's fun to play and not that hard.
But if you don't like Vivaldi, you probably won't like it!
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zambocello
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User
Posts: 607
(5/28/01 1:49:27
am)
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They're all
easy...............
............if it doesn't matter how they sound. 
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zambocello
Registered
User
Posts: 608
(5/28/01 1:55:22
am)
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Re: Is the
Saint-Saens easy?
Not only do I think the Elgar is harder, note-playing-wise, it is
so much more a "deep" piece than the St-Saens that, since I teach
mostly pre-college students, I rarely teach it. The St Saens is one
of the first standard rep concertos I assign to advancing
students.
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RebeccaCello
Registered
User
Posts: 53
(5/28/01 5:49:28
am)
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Elgar
Hi, I've never attempted playing the Saint-Saens but I think that
it's musically harder than the Elgar. I identify with the Elgar much
more and wonder whether this has something to do with being English.
Do you think culture influences musical understanding? Although
Britain and America share a language we are completely different.
American people tend to have more confidence, self belief and
ambition which is probably due to all that "american dream" stuff.
Whereas English people are more resigned and the majority of our
culture and natonal identity is comprised of nostalgia. There really
isn't anything in the present that defines or represents England;
Britain is the past and a country that no longer exists.
My
question is whether musical understanding is more a matter of
culture and identifying with what you know than maturity. Are the
two the same?
Edited by: RebeccaCello
at: 5/28/01 5:50:42 am
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cellofreak1286
Registered
User
Posts: 41
(5/28/01 5:30:19
pm)
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easy
concerto
I would suggest the Vivaldi double concerto in G Minor (for 2
cellos). It isn't very difficult, but it poses the problem of
finding another cellist. It is fun to play though and definately
worth the effort!
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dennisw
Registered
User
Posts: 189
(5/29/01 1:20:10
pm)
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Re:
Elgar/Saint-Saens
Zambo is right.
The phrasing in the Saint-Saens is, I
think, self-evident. The Elgar is less so, having some of the
nostalgic and sentimental qualites you speak of when you describe
Great Britain. There is also a very beautiful concerto (for my taste
at least) by Fredrick Delius that possesses some of these same
qualities, but is perhaps a bit more lyrical.
From a pure
facility standpoint, I would say that the Saint-Saens is "easy"
IF:
1st
- your parallel sixths in the 2nd octave on the
a-string a solid (cadenza).
2nd
- you can play chromatic
major arpeggios (cadenza) in triplets up & down the octave from
Eb-D between the d & a-strings very very fast.
- your Bb
& Eb major scale thumb position fingerings are solid (in
tune).
3rd
- you can play broken 6ths 16-note arpeggios
spiccato minimum @126 to the quarter note. The arpeggios would
include major, minor, & diminished up & down the 2nd octave
of the a-string.
- same speed & registration
w/thumb-position scales (mostly D major & a minor), both
spiccato and slurred.
- same speed & registration
w/parallel octaves
- have false harmonics down cold (really
parallel octave fingerings).
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
Posts: 1329
(5/29/01 1:58:57 pm)
Reply
 |
harder???
I posted this earlier in the wrong thread. I really think dennisw's
approach to this question is the best. Being specific and not
gerneral.
Here's my take on the issue of which piece is
harder...
-----------------------------------
Whereas one
cannot deny that a piece like Prokofiev's Symphony Concerto for
cello and orchestra is more difficult in general than Haydn C major,
I find this whole discussion of which "piece is more difficult"
somewhat disturbing.
When I look at something like the 1st
Bach suite, The Swan, or even the Sammartini Sonata, I realize that
some may be tempted to say they are merely "easy student works."
Indeed, as a youngster, when my teacher mentioned these works, I
would bristle because I wished to play Elgar and Dvorak, like the
"Big Boys." Sure I was able to play the notes of the Bach Prelude to
the 1st suite and get by relatively mistake-free. But did that make
those pieces easy?
Today, I look at the Prelude to the 1st
Back Suite and though I can play every note, I find NEW challenges.
How do I bring out the implied contrapuntal lines? How do I sustain
my sound in a very long bow where it is called for? Can I play every
interval PERFECTLY in tune? In this regard, it is not any less
difficult than the Prokofiev Symphony-Concerto. True the latter has
a great deal more virtuosity. But playing something WELL is a
challenge in ANY piece. Sometimes, the simpler the cello part (in
terms of virtusosic tricks) the more exposed and therfore more
difficult it is to play.
So as a student, I never understood
why all the older students and teachers kept preaching to me that
"the Slow movements are more difficult than the fast movements."
After all, there were hardly any doublestops or fast passages and
all that. But as I matured, I realized what was truly important. Not
the number of notes you can play per second, but how beautiful and
convinicing you can play each note (at any tempo).
So, to say
that "this concerto is easier than that one" is really an invalid
statement. You must get much more specific when you state something
like that. The Davidov Cocnerto has a lot more stratospheric thumb
position work than the Saint Seans Concerto. The Prokofiev
Symphony-Concerto employs a great deal more use of tenths, chords
and riccochet than the Shostakovich Concerto #1. But which one is
harder? They are ALL hard...to play well.
The big risk of
saying "how can you play the Brahms F and find the Haydn C or Saint
Saens concertos impossible" is really a irrelavent question. We
can't judge a person's overall ability if he/she can play a certain
piece. Even if the cellist in question plays that one piece well, it
doesn't mean that they are at a certain "level."
As a
teacher, I've had to assess many young students and placing them
into a category or level is most difficult and actually pointless.
Each one of them has different strengths and weaknesses. I have to
work with them individually and help them where they need it whether
it be bow technique, left hand technique, vibrato, tension, practice
techniques or phrasing.
Take two students.
One comes
to me playing the Elgar concerto and gets through it playing every
note. But the notes are pretty out of tune. The sound is forced and
scratchy. The phrasing makes NO sense and the Rhythm is erratic. He
thinks he's so accomplished because he got through the piece and
didn't really miss any notes.
Another student comes to me
playing the Sammartini Sonata and plays it flawlessly, perfectly in
tune. Beautifully phrased. Every bow articulated cleanly and well
planned. Vibrato is smooth and appropriate and the sound is
even.
Who will I consider at a higher level? Well, I don't go
by levels anyway. But I can say this. I would consider the student
playing the Sammartini Sonata the better cellist.
Paul Tseng
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