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Laura
Wichers
Moderator
Posts: 1019
(6/26/01 8:30:16 pm)
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Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
I don't know which thread it was, but I remember reading (I think
Paul mentioned it) about angling the fingerboard so it was more
accessible to the left hand. If I understood correctly, the
fingerboard should be as straight down as possible, maybe even
pointing slightly left. Now here's my confusion: If you angle the
fingerboard this way (maybe directing would be a better term), does
it not make it more difficult for the right arm? When playing on the
A string the right hand/arm must move out away from the cello to
keep the stick perpindicular to the string. This is easier to do, ie
the arm doesn't need to extend as far, when the fingerboard points
towards the right.
I was recently given the suggestion to
place my endpin more to the right than center, which moved upper
fingerboard further from my neck. This makes it much easier, for me
at least, to play on the A string and doesn't seem to have any
effect on my left hand manuvering.
I'd like to know how you
play and whether those of you who suggested the centered fingerboard
find it makes it more difficult to play on the higher
strings.
Laura
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff 
Administrator
Posts: 1404
(6/26/01 8:48:40 pm)
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Re: Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
Each person is different and one size does not fit all.
That
said, I find that angling the fingerboard out to the left makes it
easier for you to reach the tip of the bow without weakening your
bowarm by hyperextending it at the tip (where you need more
strength, not less).
Everything should be done in moderation.
The natural path of your left hand as you moved from 1st position to
higher ones is to move out to the left, not in towards your
center.
It is obviously possible (and maybe advantageous as
you mentioned in some ways) to play with the fingerboard the
opposite direction, but it doesn't seem to make much sense to me. If
it's not straight down the center, why make it go and further from
the natural path of your left arm than that?
Also, the more
you bring the fingerboard to the right, the harder it is to reach
the tip of the bow without hyperextending your right arm/elbow at
the tip.
It's really difficult to explain this without
acutally being there in person to show you.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Free Cello
Music!
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Laura
Wichers
Moderator
Posts: 1020
(6/27/01 6:43:37 am)
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Re: Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
It's more natural for me to move my left arm to the right, that
being the natural inward direction of the joints. You're right about
this being hard to describe without the benefit of 3D, but your
answer still makes sense to me. Thanks!
Laura
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dennisw
Registered User
Posts: 206
(6/27/01 5:48:47 pm)
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Re: Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
Hi Laura.
I'm going to go way out on a limb here and say
that from what I have just read, you and Paul are using different
interpretations of the word "angle".
I think (correct me if
I'm wrong here) that when you move your endpin to the right it is
what Paul means when he says "angling the fingerboard out to the
left".
It seems you are speaking of "angling" the fingerboard
in its position when rotated on the endpin and Paul is speaking of
"angling" the fingerboard in terms of its distance from your own
neck.
So, if I'm correct, you will enhance your ability to
reach the a-string by "angling the fingerboard" leftward (e.g.
moving the endpin to the right) and you will not sacrifice strength
at the bow's tip by hyperextension to an a-string slightly farther
away.
At the same time, if you "angle the fingerboard" to the
right by rotating on the endpin so the a-string is closer, your
spiccato, sautille etal. on the a-string will be easier and not
require you to lift your right arm up as high to reach it while
keeping the stick perpendicular to the string.
Wow!! it sure
is easier to show how to do this stuff than it is to explain
it!!
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1411
(6/27/01 6:05:52 pm)
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Re: Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
Dennis,
Actually, when I say angling to the left, I mean
that the endpin goes out a bit towards the left of center. The neck
stays close to your own neck.
This is the natural path your
left hand follows as it moved to higher positions. If you angle the
bottom of the fingerboard the other way (to the right) you have to
reach over further to get there. Also, it causes you to hyperextend
your bow arm at the tip.
Also, by Angling, I don't mean that
we rotate the the A string side or the C string side. I just mean
that the endpin goes out towards the left. The further out to the
left it is, the less you have to extend your bow arm at the tip.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Free Cello
Music!
|
Laura
Wichers
Moderator
Posts: 1027
(6/27/01 6:50:34 pm)
Reply
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Re: Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
I think what we need is a real-time video section of EBoard. This
would make things mucho easier!!
Laura
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dennisw
Registered User
Posts: 209
(6/27/01 7:55:12 pm)
Reply
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Re: Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
Oops, I guess I got it wrong, Paul.
It seems to me that if
you move the fingerboard to the right (from the cellist's
viewpoint), either by moving the endpin while keeping the
fingerboard straight or by angling the endpin to the right, you
would bring the strings closer to the right hand, thereby preventing
the hyperextension of the right arm at the tip of the bow.
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1413
(6/27/01 10:19:44 pm)
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Re: Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
Dennis,
You have to try this to understand what I
mean.
Try this:
Start with the fingerboard/endpin in
the center. Put your bow at the tip.
Now carefuly keep the
bow on the string at the tip and move the bottom of the cello
(endpin to the right) and keep the bow oriented at the tip....what
happens? At the tip your arm begins to hyperextend beyond the
healthy and relaxed and strong upsidedown L shape.
Now start
at the center again...place the bow at the tip.
This time
keep the bow at the tip and slide the endpin out to the left of your
body. What happens? You right arm relaxes and becomes LESS extended
and thus more powerful.
Amazing, innit? I would never have
realized this until Yosif Fegelson, a student of Rostropovich,
pointed (no pun intended) this to me. Come to think of it, Stephen
Kates taught me something very similar.
Oh yes! Now, you'll
notice that if you just let your left hand drop and slide donw the
fingerboard it will simply follow the path of the
string....
You'll never fall off the fingerboard again in
thumb position (almost never).
Paul Tseng
My Website
Free Cello
Music!
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dennisw
Registered User
Posts: 210
(6/27/01 10:26:46 pm)
Reply
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Re: Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
Thanks Paul, I'll give it a try...
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Laura
Wichers
Moderator
Posts: 1029
(6/28/01 6:20:13 am)
Reply
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Re: Fingerboard
position... Paul and others
When I try that (moving the endpin left of center while playing at
the tip) I find it difficult if not impossible to play with the bow
perpindicular to the string, especially the A string. It's always
been my understanding that regardless of where the right arm is, a
better sound can be produced when the bow is perpindicular. I think
what I understand is that your bow is not perpindicular, but you can
use more arm weight. Is this correct? If so, how to you accomodate
for the changed angle of the bow?
This is a great thread.
I've been messing around with my cello and trying all this stuff
out... always fun to try something different.
Laura
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1414
(6/28/01 12:27:35 pm)
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Kids, don't try
this at home...
Well, I'm just kidding...
Quote:
When I try that (moving the endpin left of center while playing
at the tip) I find it difficult if not impossible to play with the
bow perpindicular to the string, especially the A string.
Laura,
I don't seem
to have this problem. At first I was going to suggest that maybe
it's because I have pretty long arms, but then I look at my 8 year
old student and she doesn't seem to have this problem.
The
bow is still perpendicular to the strings when I play this way on
the A string. Are you moving the endpin too far out?
Again,
it's really difficult to explain over the internet.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Free Cello
Music!
|
Laura
Wichers
Moderator
Posts: 1031
(6/28/01 1:52:13 pm)
Reply
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Re: Kids, don't
try this at home...
I have long arms, so that's not it. I'm probably misinterpreting
you (confounded written expression!). Sometime I'll have to post a
picture and then you can critique it and fix whatever I'm
misunderstanding! Thanks though!
Laura
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zambocello
Registered User
Posts: 635
(6/28/01 4:50:18 pm)
Reply
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Fingerboard
left, right, etc
I feel very limited in moving my endpin to the left or right, I
think because I hold the cello well inside my knees.
Paul, I
remember the previous thread in which this was discussed. Does
holding the cello high with the bent end pin give you more latitude?
I remember you once saying that the cello is practically above your
knees.
Also, I wonder if the cello's different anlge gives
you and Laura different results.
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Paul
Tseng ICS Staff
Administrator
Posts: 1419
(6/28/01 5:53:30 pm)
Reply
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Re: Fingerboard
left, right, etc
I'm pretty certain that the angle of the cello afforded by the bent
endpin has a great deal to do with this.
I've learned not to
clutch the cello with my legs. Actually, I learned this from Kates
before studying with Slava's porteges (Feygelson and Pantaleyev).
Kates reasoning was the your right leg will dampen the cello sound
to some extent. The Cello thus rests on your chest and left
leg.
With some modification to this, I found that yes, the
cello with the bent endpin does almost rest on top of my knees and
against my chest. It's quite secure actually. Not that it never
touches my right leg. It's a general position that gets adjusted as
I play according to where I need it to be. It's really quite natural
once you get used to it.
In all fairness, it felt REALLY
foriegn to me when I first started using the bent endpin. But the
concept made so much sense to me that I was dtermined to get over
the initial strange feelings. This was also the case with any of the
new Russian-School Technique that I learned so late in my cello
student days (29-30 years old). But after I got used to it (under
proper guidance of course) I can't imagine ever going
back.
This is a matter of choice. One has to be so convicted
that they are willing to alter the fundamentals of their playing and
re-learn it. Count the cost. One might not feel it's worth leaving
what's familiar.
Paul Tseng
My Website
Free Cello
Music!
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