| Author |
Comment |
Laura
Wichers
Moderator
Posts: 1061
(7/10/01 7:29:58 pm)
Reply
|
Spiccato
how-to
I'm a bit confused. I've heard two things from two equally
well-qualified cellists about how to play spiccato. One says that
the motion originates in the forearm and is pretty much restricted
to the fingers and forearm. The other says that the motion
originates in the upper arm and the forearm/fingers just act as
intermediaries. I can do it either way, but if one method would have
negative implications on any later technique I might learn, I
figured the sooner I figure it out the "right" way the
better.
Aaaaaaargh. Any suggestions or ideas
appreciated.
Laura
|
dennisw
Registered User
Posts: 211
(7/10/01 10:34:38 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Spiccato
how-to
Hi Laura,
I don't think there is a stroke I do that doesn't
involve the upper right arm to at least some extent.
That
being said, I would have to say that because spiccato is a ricochet
stroke, its point of exact origin is less important than the
reflexive strokes. Sensing the rebound requires a great involvement
of the forearm and because it is a short stroke, there is quite a
bit of wrist as well. The upper arm is important for general
stability. And, of course, if you are changing strings there is
still the involvement of the back, as in any other stroke.
|
Tim
Janof
Administrator
Posts: 241
(7/11/01 9:13:21 am)
Reply
|
Re: Spiccato
how-to
I think Starker's rule of thumb is that you start with the larger
muscles and work your way to the smaller one's. With fast short
strokes (not necessarily spiccato) he recommends that you initiate
the stroke with the back, then upper arm, and let the forearm and
relatively loose hand flop back and forth as if they are at the end
of a whip (i.e. they move the fastest and loosest). If you follow
his rule of thumb, you will have less tension. If you start with the
smaller muscles, your shoulder and arm will tense up. I assume that
he would stick with the same principle when discussing spiccato.
|
dennisw
Registered User
Posts: 212
(7/11/01 4:14:57 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Spiccato
how-to
Wow, great explanation of spiccato from Janos by way of Tim.!!!
Edited by: dennisw
at: 7/11/01 4:20:24 pm
|
CelloBass
Registered User
Posts: 13
(7/11/01 6:19:48 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Spiccato
how-to
Tim,
your explanation sounds good, but some questions
remain... when you do fast spiccatos, your arm and shoulder are so
heavy that it takes strong forces to move them even small distances.
I see a risk of getting tension just by the idea to start those fast
small movements beginning in the shoulder and transmitting them to
your wrist. Why not keeping the soulder and upper arm totally
relaxed, doing the spiccato with the wrist? I think sometimes it is
better to avoid couplings between the parts of your arm and
shoulder.
Regards, Horst
|
Tim
Janof
Administrator
Posts: 242
(7/12/01 1:56:16 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Spiccato
how-to
Could be, though, when I try it, my shoulder is less tense when I
initiate the motion from my shoulder and upper arm. I think the key
may be to prevent immobility during this type of bow stroke. If you
keep your arm fixed and just shake your wrist, your shoulder will
tighten up-- at least mine does. Maintaining motion in your shoulder
should help to prevent the build up of tension.
Gerhard
Mantel mentioned your objection in his interview:
"If you
simply bow fast notes with a straight bow, your shoulder will tire
quickly, since it is trying to quickly shift the large mass of your
arm back and forth. The shoulder is not designed to do this, so it
fatigues after only a few bars. If, on the downbow, I bow such that
the frog is pointed towards the floor, and, on the upbow, I bow such
that the tip is pointed towards the floor, the elbow joint does the
work instead of the shoulder. The elbow, in addition, automatically
goes forward a little bit on the downbow and back a little bit on
the upbow. By using the elbow much less mass is being moved, which
requires much less energy, thus saving the shoulder."
There
is a diagram that accompanies this statement that you might want to
check out.
On a related note, Parisot said this:
"Most
people get tired because they are trying to force the bow to jump,
which causes their thumb, hand, arm, and shoulder to tense up, thus
eliminating any hope of a good spiccato. In order to prevent this,
one needs to relieve the thumb pressure and the bow will bounce by
itself.
A spiccato stroke is just a short piece of a relaxed
legato stroke. The more you release the pressure, the more the bow
will tend to bounce by itself, as long as you are playing at the
right place on the bow, usually near the balance point. If you just
remember that you are still playing legato, even in fast detaché
notes, you won't get tired."
Tim
|
CelloBass
Registered User
Posts: 16
(7/12/01 7:50:34 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Spiccato
how-to
Tim,
thanks for your reply - Gerhard expressed exactly what
I wanted to say. As it is often the case, there seem to be many ways
to get those strokes without getting into tension.
Horst
| |
Internet Cello
Society Forums
Email This To a Friend
Topic Commands (Moderator
only)