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Sasha
A M
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Posts: 47
(5/31/01 3:35:17
pm)
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villa-lobos on a
big orchestra?
hallo!
tomorrow my wife gets her diploma from the
conservatory (she studies also cello), and on sunday we have a
private "diploma concert" where she plays schumann fantasiestycke. i
conduct 8 cellos through villa-lobos bachianas brasileiras nr
1.
the piece is meant to play on a "orchestra of
violoncellos". but usually it is played and recorded on only 8
cellos, as there is 8 different parts.
i think the orchestra
of violoncellos means originally a big orchestra, i would say
minimum of 24 violoncellos. has any of you ever played or heartd the
bachianas performed on a real orchestra of cellos? or know any
recording. any experiences how it worked and sounded?
i hope
next year when i get the paper from the conservatory i can conduct a
really bic cello orchestra on my own "gala concert".
happy
summer days,
sasha
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Nicholas
Anderson
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Posts: 78
(6/4/01 2:35:16
am)
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Re: villa-lobos
on a big orchestra?
This reminds me of something I haven't thought of in years. A long
time ago I heard a recording of a Villa-Lobos piece that made a very
strong impression on me - it's his "Fantasia Concertante," scored
for an orchestra of 32 cellos, minimum, meaning (as I understand it)
32 different cello parts. As I recall, it's in three movements,
fast-slow-fast. The outer movements are powerful and energetic, and
the slow movement is extremely emotional and hauntingly beautiful.
In a way, it's like an enriched and elaborated version of the 1st
Bachianas, though very much an original entity of its own. It makes
phenomenal use of the texture of all those cellos with different
interweaving parts. The slow movement in particular got under my
skin, and now that I remember it, I'm dying to hear it
again.
I found a reference to the "Fantasia Concertante" in
one of those catalog-type listings on the back cover of another
Villa-Lobos score that I have - this is the Eschig edition, from
Paris. The duration of the piece is given as 24 minutes, and it was
written in 1958, which was the year before he died. It would be
interesting to know if it's still in print, or available at all. I
have no idea what recording of the piece it was that I heard -
someone played a tape for me. I've never heard of it being performed
at any of the various Cello Congresses or festivals, and that amazes
me somewhat, because it seems like a natural for such an
event.
In any case, this might be worth considering for the
"gala concert" you're envisioning. In the meantime, does anyone know
of a recording of this? I'd love to encounter it again -
-Nick
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Peter
D
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Posts: 29
(6/6/01 9:04:36
am)
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Bach Bachianas
No. 1
You may want to consider purchasing the CD "Bach Bachianas - The
Yale Cellos of Aldo Parisot, Arleen Auger, soprano" recorded in 1986
and released by Delos. Mr. Parisot directs 20 members of the Yale
Cellos in the performances of Bachianas Nos. 1 and 5. According to
Parisot's recollection, Villa-Lobos added a double bass in
performance in order to deepen the bass sound of the cello
orchestra. Parisot adheres to this conception by placing more cellos
on the fourth (lowest) line.
The 12 members of the Berlin
Phil. have also recorded Bachianas No. 1 - recorded for Decca
originally.
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SrPilha
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Posts: 67
(6/25/01 7:00:45
pm)
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Re: villa-lobos
on a big orchestra?
Hi there!
I've been away for a long time, but the topic of
Villa-Lobos always catches my attention.
If I remember well,
he recorded Bachianas No.1 with an orchestra of 24 cellos. The
version is published by EMI, and is part of the excellent box set
"Villa-Lobos par lui-même". It's still my favorite version. In the
boxset there are all the Bachianas Brasileiras (and other stuff),
conducted by himself. In his version of No.5 he did add a
double-bass, but to the third stand, that actually plays the role of
the bass line in the first movement of that piece (the fourth stand
plays a lot of pizz., it's lighter). I don't know if he kept the
bass for the second movement.
Btw, the Berliner
Philharmonisher version is quite cool too, but they've added some
stuff, like a doubling at the lower octave for some passages of the
lower voices. Maybe not the most correct thing to do, but I can't
say the result is unpleasant. Sort of the same idea as adding a
double bass.
The Fantasia Concertante is actually for at
least 15 cellos (15 different parts, probably in 5 stands with
occasionally divisi a 3 - I've never seen the parts), if I'm not
mistaken, and I think Villa-Lobos recorded it with 32 cellos. I have
never heard of any other recording than his, and I don't know the
label (the CD I have stayed in Brazil), but it wasn't anything very
much known.
I think they should program it for these cello
festivals too. What I think happens is that they don't have that
much time to prepare a cello orchestra concert, and Bachianas No.1
is already quite demanding, not only individually, but also the
"putting things together". I've heard every part of the Fantasia
Concertante is as hard as the first stand of Bachianas No.1. If
you've played this one, you'll know this can be a scary thought if
you have like two weeks to get the piece going...
It is a
fantastic piece anyway, and I sure hope I'll play it some
day.
Best regards,
Guilherme
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Nicholas
Anderson
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Posts: 86
(6/26/01 3:17:48
am)
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Re: villa-lobos
on a big orchestra?
Hi Guilherme - I should have thought of asking you about the
Fantasia Concertante - I forgot that I knew a cellist from
Brazil!
According to the aforementioned Eschig sheet-music
catalog listing on the back of another Villa-Lobos score, the piece
is given as "FANTASIA CONCERTANTE pour orchestre de 32 violoncelles
[1958]." I would imagine that even if some of the parts just have
divisi sections, it would still end up requiring 32 different
players to cover all the parts. But maybe we'll eventually know for
sure.
Since my initial post about this, I've done a little
more research, and now have the following leads. The parts are not
available for sale, but may be available for rent. The rental agent
for Eschig is now Schirmer, in Chester, New York, and I have a phone
number for them, but haven't yet called.
I also found out
that there's a Villa-Lobos Society in NY, run by a composer and
conductor named Alfred Heller, who apparently studied with
Villa-Lobos and worked with him closely. I'll bet he would know
something about it, and I'm planning to follow up on it.
I
even found out how to reach my friend from the past with whom I
haven't been in touch in over 15 years, the person who played the
recording of it for me. So now I can pursue that
connection.
I'll let you know if I get around to these
things, and if I find out anything substantial - which I might,
because I love solving a good mystery!
As for this piece not
having been played so far at one of the cello congresses or
festivals - I personally doubt that issues of difficulty of the
parts have had anything to do with it. At the various such events
I've attended, there has been more than a big enough talent pool to
handle it, and they play other pieces that are fiercely difficult;
and on the recording, the piece didn't sound *that* hard to me.
Actually, I was being a little bit "tongue-in-cheek" when I
suggested that I was mystified by the piece's neglect in the cello
festivals. I surmise that it's due to a combination of two factors:
the event organizers don't know the piece exists, and/or it never
crosses their minds that it would be extremely effective. Well, I
guess we should be happy that those events are put together at all -
and think of it as another case of "onward and upward!" 
-Nick
Edited by: Nicholas
Anderson at: 6/26/01 3:20:13 am
|
DoDahlberg
Moderator
Posts: 100
(6/26/01 4:18:36 am)
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Gui!
Hi Guilherme! Are you still in France?
Dorie |
SrPilha
Registered
User
Posts: 68
(7/11/01 2:23:53
pm)
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Fantasia
Concertante
Hello again,
Well, Nick, if the Eschig catalog says it's for
32 cellos, what I heard must have been mistaken. But I still can't
figure how the 32 parts are displayed. 4 stands, with occasional
divisi a 8? 5 stands, 3 divisi a 6, 2 divisi a 7? (sounds
weirder)
Do tell us about the results of your investigations.
I love solving mysteries too.
And Dorie, yep, I'm still in
France, on vacations for a couple of months, which means I'll have
just enough time to finish my dissertation on Musical
Representations of Mathematical Ideas before October.
Best
wishes to all!
Guilherme
|
Nicholas
Anderson
Registered
User
Posts: 88
(7/12/01 2:17:48
am)
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Re: Fantasia
Concertante
Hi Guilherme - good to hear from you!
I'll certainly let you
know when I finally get to the bottom of this "Unsolved Mystery."
And we'll unravel the algorithm of the 32 parts! It's a beautiful
piece, and I appreciate your reminder to keep after it.
Best
regards,
-Nick
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