| Author |
Comment |
beginnerat48
Registered User
Posts: 1
(7/22/01 12:10:57 am)
Reply
|
If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
About 3 months ago I had one of those rare peak experiences. I
played the flute and piano as a child, but gave up music in the 9th
grade. Didn't think I had any interest in the string instruments,
but in May my good friend upgraded her student violin to a finer
instrument. She allowed me to play open strings on it. I drew the
bow across the string and I was shocked by the experience. Not only
did I hear this incredible tone, but I felt the vibrations in my
body! I had no idea one could FEEL music. In that moment this
already marvelous world expanded for me. I've always prefered the
sound of a cello to a violin and since it's more accomodating to an
aging body, I chose the cello to learn. Little did I know the
COMPLEXITY of the instrument.
That leads me to why I post
now. I found a fine teacher, but she's been busy with summer
vacation and all. I just had my 3rd lesson (after a month of no
lessons). I found out I'd been doing it all wrong and so the whole
lesson was re-learning the correct right and left hand
positions...even had to correct the height and position of the
cello. I'm all for learning it right from the beginning. But now
I've got two weeks before my next lesson and am afraid I'm holding
the bow wrong...that little finger doesn't want to relax. And my
left hand can't play any notes in the new position. AGHHHH!! I have
this fear that every lesson will be spent on the basics and I'll
never get to the music part of it.
Tell me other rank
beginners have had the same problems of their fingers not
stretching/body not doing what it should. Any suggestions??? Maybe I
should ask for an hour lesson. She suggested only 1/2 hour as a
beginner. I feel like I barely get the feel of it, then must leave.
After the 1/2 hour ride home, I'm not sure I can replicate the
positions taught.
I've been encouraged reading about other
beginners and am slowly going through the archived postings. Thanks.
sue
|
DoDahlberg
Moderator
Posts: 122
(7/22/01 7:24:58 am)
Reply
|
Re: If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
a. There is a cello bug.
b. Don't worry about anything. I
don't mean that in the sense that you shouldn't try to get things
right but at this age, our general ages, we shouldn't be worrying
about things. This leads me to...
c. Have fun!
Dorie |
Andrew
Victor
Registered
User
Posts: 360
(7/22/01 7:28:52
am)
Reply
|
How many ways to
skin that cat??
My first cello - the one on which I learned to play several of the
Bach suites, Kol Nidre, and the Haydn D major concerto had an endpin
with only about 9-10 inches maximum extension.
My teacher who
had played in a number of major symphonies and was a fine player
never told me (as he should have) to get a longer peg. SO all my
positions were learned with that short pin and my bow hold and
bowing.
Now I play with about 16-inches pin extension and
everything is different - but easier, because the cello comes to the
right parts of my body.
I am about 6-feet tall (or was in my
prime) and have the longest arms of anyone I know - and good
cello-size hands. I also know cellists who are not much more than
5-feet tall.
One could not expect us all to hold everything
the same way. But we could all be expected to get the job
done.
I do not like my right hand position (compared to what
feels right on my violin and viola bows) but I am able to get the
job done on the cello bow - and I do now play better than when I
studied 50 years ago. I was taught to bend my right thumb - but
Casals played with a straight right thumb - and with my cello held
high and angled to face a little to my right I must bow with a
straight right thumb if I am to get use near the frog and get decent
off-string stokes.
Personally, I question many of the "rules"
about how to hold things. There are "principles" one ought to
observe; these are based on the physics of the thing and for each
individual will lead to hand positions and technique.
I've
seen people who had lousy instruction because they were taught
positions instead of principles by a teacher of a different size. Or
perhaps, like you, they forgot how to hold it.
Anyway - good
luck on getting a hand-le on it!
Andy
Edited by: Andrew
Victor at: 7/22/01 7:31:21 am
|
Bobbie
Registered User
Posts: 536
(7/22/01 9:45:39 am)
Reply
|
Re: If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
One thing that might be useful would be to write down what your
teacher tells you as soon as you can after the lesson is over, maybe
even before you drive home, or get a tape recorder and talk into it
on the way home, or even record the lesson. I have an hour's drive
home, but I like that because I can go over things in my mind (I no
longer write them down right away.) When I went right off to work
after a lesson I remembered much less of what was
said.
Another thing to do is to be absolutely sure at the
lesson that you understand what you are being asked to do. That
sounds obvious, but a sometimes we are afraid to look too stupid and
so we leave confused rather than making sure we understand. If the
instruction on holding the cello is the first thing in the lesson,
just before you leave ask if you are doing it correctly.
Finally, don't expect to get it all at once. Your teacher
expects to have to refine your instrument and bow holds over a
period of time. When you are practicing, if things seem hard to do,
look at how you are holding the instrument. Use a mirror. Try to
analyze what does and does not work. This is where being an adult
beginner is an advantage. Write down questions you want to ask next
week.
|
boboma
Registered User
Posts: 8
(7/22/01 6:57:48 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Welcome
!!
Just wanted to encourage you regarding the holding of bow, left
hand position, etc. I have played for four years now and am still
working through bad habits. I would be very concerned about it if I
were auditioning for the New York Philharmonic or practicing for 7-8
hours per day - but those things are highly unlikely for me. Your
teacher probably just wants to make sure that the basics are
enforced so that future "stress injuries" do not occur. Your first
few lessons might be just that: Comfortable seating, relaxed bow
arm, curved left hand, and so on. These are adjustments that we will
become accustomed to over time. Don't be discouraged. We're all in
this together !! This road takes patience, but it is well worth
it.
Boboma
|
scavok2301
Registered User
Posts: 1
(7/23/01 2:36:51 am)
Reply
|
Re: If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
Hello all-
Another beginner here, who's had just a
half-dozen lessons up till now. I'm about ready to find a teacher
again, after almost a year. At the moment I'm practising from my
books on my own. Anyway, here's my thing: I'm short(5'1"), with
short arms even for my height! Legs short too. All my length's in my
torso. I wear a 38C bra. When I initially practised my cello, I
tried for the hold/height recommended by all my books: the lower peg
next my left ear. my knees where they "should" be at the sides of
the cello, etc. This meant the endpin was extended only about 9-10".
At my first lesson my then-teacher took one look-it seemed to me at
the cello, rather than at me-and immediately doubled the length of
the endpin. This felt very awkward to me-the cello was at a severe
angle away from my body, slanted way out from my chest, and I felt I
had to reach too far...does any of this make any sense? I guess I'm
wondering if I should return to trying to bow with the super-long
endpin, or the way I, the ignorant, like it? Any thoughts?
|
me4cello
Registered User
Posts: 124
(7/23/01 3:56:41 am)
Reply
|
Cello bug
causing rash...
Lots of us on this board have started as adults so you'll find lots
of sympathy and help.
Take a notebook to your lesson and take
notes of suggestions your teacher makes. Maybe ask her if you can
tape the lesson, this can be very helpful.
Maybe you should
compromise on 3/4 hour for your beginning lessons which will allow
you time to relax and start absorbing your teachers instruction but
won't make you too tired - believe me its very tiring to start
with!!
Try and keep everything realxed physically, as for
your bow hold, imagine you have reached out your hand pick up a
small ball from a table in front of you, all you fingers have
probably curved gently, that's basically how you want to hold you
bow.
Enjoy yourself!
|
beginnerat48
Registered User
Posts: 2
(7/23/01 7:48:35 pm)
Reply
|
Re: Cello bug
causing rash...
Thank you all for your responses. I find this site very
encouraging. I'll try the suggestions and it'll just take the time
it takes. sue
|
Sorefingers
Registered User
Posts: 119
(7/24/01 12:06:49 am)
Reply
|
Re: If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
Hi Scavok.
Yes, I have the same problem as you - too short
legs,too ample chest.
You don't say if you are able to keep the
cello steady with the extended end pin.
I tried a regular,
"normal" extended end pin - I couldn't hold the cello steady with my
legs - my chest caused the cello to be too far from my body. When I
adjusted the cello so I could hold it with my knees - it was too
high - almost at my chin.
I experimented with extending the
end pin out farther - put my feet on telephone books - EUREKA -
everything fit - my knees were where they were supposed to be, the
top of the cello was at a comfortable level. But I couldn't lug
telephone books on stage - I found shoes that have 3 inch soles at
the BALL of the foot, not just at the heel - platforms. Organists
have special shoes - why not cellists? Sometimes I feel like
Frankenstein - LOL, but I'm comfortable and I can play like a demon.
When I can afford it, I'll get a bent end pin.
Try
experimenting with extending the end pin and building up your feet -
you say your arms are short - this will put your cello more
horizontal - easier for your arms to reach all strings from above.
It might not work - it can't hurt to noodle around to find what is
comfortable.
Gina
Edited by: Sorefingers
at: 7/24/01 12:10:03 am
|
scavok2301
Registered User
Posts: 2
(7/24/01 1:16:26 pm)
Reply
|
Re: If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
Thanks, Gina/Sorefingers!("Sorefingers"-what a great
moniker!)
I'm really relieved to read that someone else has
the same "configuration" problem as I do. I'm off to find some
telephone books. :-)
BTW-My first teacher was a very slim,
straight-up-and-down woman who at first lesson did the ol' "hug the
cello to your chest" to get position right maneuver-easy for
her-*not* so for me-you can imagine my trouble!
Thanks again for
the advice.
-Jenny
|
RobertPlaysCello
Registered User
Posts: 7
(7/24/01 3:39:30 pm)
Reply
|
Hang in
there!
I too just started the cello, back in March. Every lesson begins
with me telling my teacher "I think I finally understand what you
mean when you say keep elbows low/hold bow loosely/cling to the
cello with your back/etc." Inevitably, by the end of the lesson it's
clear that I have no idea whatsoever about what she means. That's
just the learning process. Give yourself permission to get things
wrong and make lots of squeaking noises.
As far as hints, i
will reiterate taping the lessons. My teacher also writes in my
notebook little things I should pay attention to for the next week's
practice. But the taped material is really the best. Also, ask if
your teacher would be willing to put little colored dots on the
cello and bow showing you were your fingers should go.
Good
luck, you've got lot's of company on this board!
-rl
|
Ellen
G 
Registered User
Posts: 815
(7/24/01 4:09:06 pm)
Reply
|
Re: If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
One of the things that benefitted me the most was a cello teacher
telling me not to expect to see changes, get results, whatever you
want to call it, in days or weeks. It takes more like months and
sometimes even years. And the thing is, it's not so scary now. It
helped. The notion that you learn something one week and show up
with it mastered the next is not something that is going to happen.
I used to think it was supposed to. Silly!! The types of things that
happen quickly are recognition of notes, rhythms, mental things.
The concept of a bow hold, a position, a motion are things that
evolve slowly over time. Even players who have been playing quite
some time who frequently have wonderful left hand facility have
lousy bow control. It's painfully apparent in "easy" pieces. Like
the others said, you can't get everything at one time, so you have
to work on the biggest problems which, once cleared, will make the
other problems easier to deal with.
Regard it more like
working out, weight lifting, dieting. You don't lose ten pounds in a
day, and you don't bench press tremendous amounts of weight the
first week in the gym.
And adults are more analytical,
muscles are a little stiffer, our minds are frequently busy with
non-cello things at inopportune times. Play for fun, find other
people to play with to make you feel better about yourself and what
you can do on the cello. That's where the mental part comes in.
Counting, reading well. It all helps make you a complete player.
You are wise to realize this is complex, and the more you
learn, the more you find out there is to learn. E
|
Sorefingers
Registered User
Posts: 120
(7/24/01 11:53:27 pm)
Reply
|
Re: If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
Scavok - this all took years for me to discover. You need to
remember too - cellists come in all shapes and sizes. I made my
discovery and got the courage to be "different" after recently
watching a video of J.DuPre - she's doing everything "wrong" as far
as what we are all taught is correct - her cello is all over the
place. But who would question her playing and sound
production?
Most of my teachers in the past have been of the
same build as the one you describe. In fact there was a very
interesting opinion my last teacher presented me with upon one of my
early lessons with her and I have discussed with others of this
board. I've come to start paying attention to some of the big names
- look at Ofra Hanoy, J. DuPre to name a few - they are not resting
their cellos on their sternums.
Take heart, when there's a
desire there will always be a way to overcome any
obsticle.
Gina
|
cellogram
Registered User
Posts: 12
(8/1/01 1:15:52 am)
Reply
|
Re: If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
I am glad I am not the only one with telephone books etc. haha. Can
anyone offer some tips to play more from the shoulder than the
forearm ? I also was wondering why it seems so many people have
teachers just for a short time?
|
DoDahlberg
Moderator
Posts: 129
(8/1/01 4:43:57 am)
Reply
|
Teachers for
short periods
Speaking for mysefl:
Time conficts.
Orchestra music
and time to practice it takes away from time and energy to practice
lesson material.
Money...but mostly the time factor.
Dorie |
Per
Stromgren
Registered
User
Posts: 5
(8/1/01 10:22:20
am)
Reply
|
Re: If there's a
cello bug, then I've been bit
As said before: yes. And you have been bitten.
To all other
good advice, I (a veteran with 9 months of playing the cello...)
would like to add a very tiny bit:
Learn how to get the left
hand right in the first position by listening to the resonance of
the open string below the one you are playing, by playing the tone
with 4:th finger pushed down. For example: play a G on the D string
and listen for the resosnace of the open G string. Move the finger
up and down until you can clearly hear the open string vibrate.
Voila, there you have at least one finger on the left hand correctly
placed!
This little "trick" has saved me a lot of trouble.
May I also humbly suggest that you have a look at my
fingering chart: w1.541.telia.com/~u541045...o_page.htm
This
may perhaps be of some help to you.
And, of course, do NOT
give up. I did not, and Bach and I are nearly friends now!
Per.
|
Xabur1342
Registered User
Posts: 9
(8/2/01 10:43:04 am)
Reply
|
comfortable
chair
In case anyone hasn't thought of this.
I find that the chair you
sit on is extremely important.
The worst are the chairs that
slope backwards. You feel like you are falling away from the
cello.
But a good chair, ahhh, is much more comfortable.
Preferrably one that slopes slightly forward. Also the hight of the
chair can make a huge difference. Too short or to tall can be
uncomfortable. At home I have this wide padded chair, slopes forward
a bit. Looks a bit antique-like. Its very, very nice for cello
playing.
Xabur
|
Bobbie
Registered User
Posts: 569
(8/2/01 10:46:21 am)
Reply
|
Re: comfortable
chair
I'm on the verge of buying Wenger cello chair. But a cheaper
solution (not quite as nice) is to use a slanted cushion on the
chair, like a Tush Cush. Sometimes I use a folding chair with blocks
under the back legs.
|
JanJan2
Registered User
Posts: 213
(8/2/01 11:10:11 am)
Reply
|
Re: comfortable
chair
You've probably already thought of this . . . but the Tush Cush is
not only more affordable, but definitely more portable! You can use
it for gigs and rehearsals, etc. Just a thought.
Janet |
Bobbie
Registered User
Posts: 570
(8/2/01 11:14:07 am)
Reply
|
Re: comfortable
chair
I know. I have one. What I really need, though, is a chair that is
comfortable and PORTABLE. A folding cello chair. Wenger makes a
folding chair but it isn't the same as the cello chair, although
I've heard it is better than a regular folding chair. We play half
of our concerts in a hall that has horrible padded chairs that are
uncomfortable even with the cushion.
|
ruthann
Registered
User
Posts: 537
(8/2/01 11:19:57
am)
Reply
|
Re: comfortable
chair
I bought a folding keyboard bench, kind of like the one that Ellen
has a cellos2go. It's been a great investment. The height is
adjustable, great for tall people like me. I take it with me
everywhere.
cello_suttonr@hotmail.com |
Internet Cello
Society Forums
Email
This To a Friend
Topic Commands (Moderator
only)