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eccles7 Registered User (4/11/01 11:33:13 pm) Reply	Suzuki Method Does anyone have any thoughts or opinions on an adult beginner learning with the Suzuki Method? I understand that it's often discussed in relation to children and that it's really focused on listening. I do tend to be rather analytical but the holistic approach is appealing. Thanks for any thoughts you might have.
DoDahlberg Moderator (4/12/01 4:40:03 am) Reply	Re: Suzuki Method Including the repetition of endless patterns of Twinkle, I would think that strict Suzuki for an adult would be boring. Then there's always the problem that you want to play real music and you won't be able to read well enough to do it. Teachers of adults will use the Suzuki books for the material, which is well chosen but there are so many other ways to learn to play an instrument. Any adult, as well as most children, learn from practicing a combination of things: rote learning, listening, reading/theory, playing music... Finding a good teacher and forming a relationship with that person is probably most important. Struggling to find a particular method that you think might suit you puts off learning to play the cello. I'm not taking your question lightly but many excellent teachers have worked out their own methods that work well for them and their students. If somebody doesn't progress or is unhappy with the way they're learning, it may go back to the teacher/student relationship - what's a match for one may not be a match for another. We've had many conversations about teacher/student relationships here as well as conversations about learning styles/teaching styles. You might like to go back and read through some of those threads. Dorie
jdacheetah Registered User (4/12/01 6:08:56 am) Reply	Re: Suzuki Method Hi, there. I've been playing cello for only four months and my teacher has taught me using the Suzuki Method. I'm halfway through book two right now currently tackling Minuet Number 3 by Bach. As Dorie mentioned previously, the material in the books is great for gradual progression of technique and learning to sight read. A month ago, my teacher thought that it would be a good idea for me to play a recital with his regular students. Having recital only once a year, he didn't want me to miss the boat. All of his students were ages 4 to 18. When I showed up at the church there was a couple of parents already there. Myself being 24 yr of age this lady said, "Oh, you must be really good!" Yeah right! Anyway, I ended up having a great time. We played in this massive church that had amazing acoustics. (Accompanied by piano no less!) In my limited experience I have enjoyed learning using the Suzuki method. Jeremy
Andrew Victor Registered User (4/12/01 11:14:15 am) Reply	Re: Suzuki Method I teach violin and cello to people who can "read music," or who are old enough to learn, using the Suzuki books. But it is not the "Suzuki Method." That is very specialized, and should not be attempted without specific training in all aspects of the method. I find the Suzuki books provide an excellent and graded program with interesting music to play. When I think it is necesary, I supplement the music in the Suzuki books with other studies or music pieces for particular pedagogocal purposes. I wish the Suzuki books had been around a half century ago, when I was doing my cello studies, but then I might never have gotten to and through the Haydn D-Major within the first 2 years, but then, there would have been weeks when I would have made it through an entire Suzuki book or two (I'd had the advantage of 10 years of violin when I started cello at age 14), so certain parts came very fast - and maybe I would have gotten there anyway. Yes, my opinion of the Suzuki books is very positive. My experience of the Suzuki Method, as I've observed its effectiveness with children, has been amazing - so many fine young violinists ae being developed. As an adult my mind is not geared to the rote learning involved in the early stags of the Suzuki Method, and I do know of one adult who went that way (on violin) after being unhappy with the results he was achieving with a more sight-reading oriented approach. The Suzuki Method was slow at first for him, but it seems he rather quickly got to and exceeded his previous accomplishments. So it can work, even for an adult! Andy
ruthann Registered User (4/12/01 3:04:20 pm) Reply	Re: Suzuki Method You know, the Suzuki method does not prohibit the use of music. There is nothing in the method that says don't teach a student to read until... With very young children it's best not to start teaching them to read right away. With older children and adults there is no reason not to read, unless the student finds it interferes with the early learning curve. Suzuki is a great method. The listening is very important. Some teachers insist on memorization, some don't. I was not taught this way, it was not common in my youth. It certainly isn't the only way to learn, but it is a very good, effective method with an excellent series of books. By all means supplement with Schroeder and Klengel and Sevcik and Mooney. Although the method was designed with the thought of teaching young children complex tasks, it works for all ages. So go for it. Make sure you do your listening. You will be amazed at how much it helps you progress. cello_suttonr@hotmail.com
Ellen G Registered User (4/13/01 8:18:58 am) Reply	Re: Suzuki Method I echo the remarks as to the distinction between the books and the method. Big difference. What I like about the books is their deviation from most studies like All for Strings, String Builder, which has a series of two-line ditties and then very dull exercises which teach one new note or shift by moving through a three-note pattern over and over again. They seem to me to be geared for little kids and not for adults who are capable of more mentally. Suzuki will have a Bach piece, a full page, or other "classical" music, and the shifts are necessary, so you learn them. (Come to think of it, what's classic about Go Tell Aunt Rhodie?) Granted, in retrospect, I can't believe they use some of the fingerings they do, but at the time they were helpful and I didn't know enough to question them. A lot of pieces are like that. When you are learning them, you need some sort of guidance. As you advance and revisit pieces, you have a better sense of what you are doing and can say wow, that's silly, why don't they use THIS shift instead??? I'd augment any Suzuki books with things like Rick Mooney's Position Pieces, Schroeder studies, Cossman. Keeps it interesting, they all have merit, and one helps you improve skills that you notice when playing another piece. And it is also a good idea, if you have a pianist, to play accompanied. Nothing checks for intonation like a piano. Suzuki books are available with piano accompaniment as well as ensemble arrangements.
Lucy Clifford Registered User (4/15/01 5:05:02 pm) Reply	Re: Suzuki Method Hello, eccles! I have two adult students learning 'pure' Suzuki Method, and two whom I am supplementing. As a committed Suzuki teacher I feel that, properly managed, adults certainly can do 'pure' Suzuki, and enjoy it very, very much. One of my 'pure' students is the husband of a member of the London Phil., and he is enjoying himself no end - currently playing Judas Maccabeus - and a dedicated listener to the CDs, and attendee of all house concerts, concerts at old peoples' homes and Xmas busking! He loves playing in my cello ensembles, and is great with the children - not overbearing or officious or anything like that. Living in a very musical household, his musical knowledge is astounding, and he has a musicology degree, and so the lessons are a learning experience for me as well! The other is a parent of one of my 5 year old students. Her mother started learning about a year before, and we had some initial problems when she thought that she knew better than I did how to teach her daughter! The other two students are more casual, and don't learn all the pieces in the Suzuki Books, and learn other pieces as well. However, with all my students (adult and child) I insist that they learn Suzuki pieces from listening, and outside repertoire by reading. This way the adults can join ensembles etc.... One of the big things to remember about adult students is that they are generally very busy, and I adjust their weekly practice load to fit in with their schedules. So, while their approach is often more analytical, and thus faster, they don't have the time to keep up the practice, and thus their progress is slower. It all balances out. I think that the main thing for adult Suzuki, and non-Suzuki students to remember is that they have to follow the same path as all beginners, and do have to do all the listening, and attend all the group lessons etc, etc....and they have to forget their inhibitions, and that they are authority figures It is hard for them. I think that provided that you have a good, well trained teacher, and the right attitude Suzuki will work very well for you! If you want to do it, make sure that your teacher is well trained and well qualified. It might be worth finding the phone number of your local association to get the name of a good teacher. Regarding the fingerings....yes some are bizarre! And in 'real life' I would never do them! However they do serve a useful, and vital, role in technical developement, so I do follow them.
eccles7 Registered User (4/15/01 11:32:32 pm) Reply	Suzuki Method I want to thank you all for giving me your thoughts and impressions on the Suzuki Method. The time we give to one another on this site is invaluable. I had already made the decision to change from my current teacher and became interested in another in my area who is a certified Suzuki instuctor. I am not going after a certain instruction, per se. As Dorie suggested, my main aim is to learn the cello. I've only been at this for nine months and it is the first instrument I've attempted to learn. I have a good feeling from the woman I spoke to and if Suzuki has valuable things to offer, then I'm game. I don't think there is anything to lose, and exposure to other ways of learning and thinking about music is a good thing. So, thank you again for helping me along this path. I wish I had more to offer in these discussions, but for now I will listen and learn, and in time, perhaps contribute more. Regards.
Lucy Clifford Registered User (4/16/01 1:56:12 am) Reply	Re: Suzuki Method Great! Listen to your tapes religiously, and everything will be fine! Remember that you don't just have to listen to your current tape/CD or your current pieces. Try to listen to Book 4, 5, 7, 8 CDs, and you'll get to hear some beautiful music.