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tiffanylne Registered User (4/13/01 9:47:37 pm) Reply	ugh...MANY questions ok well im trying out a bunch of different strings i bought off of ebay...but i need to buy a new c string...any suggestions?....i was thinking helicore and i did a search on here and couldnt find anything posted about them. also my teach wants me to get a new tailpiece...one that doesnt have the tuners already in it,,,i know NOTHING about them and there are so many to choose from...any suggestions or comments on the differences? and FINALLY, any suggestions on rosin? thanks, tiffany oh, and does anyone know a cheaper place on here to find strings...the cheapest so far for the helicore that i can find is 32.50 for the c string...just curious.
TerryM Registered User (4/14/01 8:32:52 am) Reply	Re: ugh...MANY questions Check back through the posts on this board. There was a major discussion about tailpieces in the past month, probably on page 2 of the posts. There is also a lot about strings and their selection. Try Cellos2Go for tailpiece and string information and good prices as well. Ellen is an active member our board and a great person too. cellos2Go.com Your teacher is right about the tailpiece. Add-on tuners add a lot of mass to the tailpiece and dampen the sound. You will find an improvement in sound and projection by replacing the tailpiece. The Harmonie is very good, but a bit more expensive. I have this tailpiece on both of my cellos. Terry
Andrew Victor Registered User (4/14/01 11:37:47 am) Reply	Re: ugh...MANY questions Don't let terry kid you! The Bois d'Harmonie cello tailpieces are MUCH MORE expensive ($185 at Johnson String Instrument Co. that seems to bee the exclusive US retailer) - typically you could buy up to 10 other brands of tailpieces (metal or composite) with built-in tuners for that amount. You do see some of the professional (even virtuoso soloists) cellists with such Wittner, Thomastic, or Akusticus, or Ferwerda (an Australian product) tailpieces. Personally, I think one gets a more open and louder tone with the "Harmonie" - but you have to decide for yourself if you want to pay that much for it. Both Terry and I are presuming much "past" your syntax. Are we wrong, and did you teacher really want you to have a talpiece with NO fine tuners? If so, ask the teacher why! Andy P.S., I have found D'Adarrio Helicore C and G strings to be relatively unresponsive (compared to many other brands). This means that it is harder to start a note on them and one has to press harder. The price you have found is typical of the lowest prices. Many players prefer Thomastik Spirocore - very popular (or other brands of) tungsten wound strings (the higher density tungsten makes a heavier string that can be thinner and respond better on a number of cellos [not all]). The Thomastic Spirocore string is typical of these, and a good discount price for one of these is about $52. (By the way, Spirocore C and G strings also come with Silver and Chrome-steel windings - for about $40 and $20, respectively for a C string, but the Chrome-wound strings are less responsive - and the silver-wound ---well, let's just say you have to match the string to the instrument (one of my cellos is better with the silver-wound low srings - if I'm using Spirocore). I don't know why the Helicore strings (that are also advertised to be Tungsten wound) have been less responsive on my 3 cellos, the only "advantage" has been that my F-F# wolf (G-string & C-string) on all but my loudest cello is gone with these strings - but still, it's not worth the price in lost responsiveness. One of the most serious problems of reduced responsiveness for a begining cellist, is that you develop bad bowing habits to compensate for the unresponsive string that can usually be instantly detected by a knowledgeable listener or teacher - but if you've got the bad string, it's hard to really correct this problem. For a more experienced player, lost responsiveness puts new hurdles in your way - where you don't need them. Rosin? All around, I find the Millant-Deroux works just fine, or the same company's "Gold & Silver". They also make a dark soft rosin caled "Jade" that has become very popular, but I find it too sticky for my taste and it requires that I celan up the strings more often than I like. Other good brands are Pirastro Cello, Kolstein, and (if you have an allergy to rosin), try Motrya. Some luthiers have recommended the Hill rosins (they have a light and dark - dark is usually softer) - and Hill rosins are ususally reasonably priced; another luthier, who recommended Bernardel is now displaying and selling lots of Jade. JUST DON'T USE TOO MUCH ROSIN ON YOUR BOW - it just overcoats ths strings and makes them sound bad and unresponsive. SO always wipe your strings after you play, and during practice if you notice a change in sound. You sould not have to rosin your bow more often than every few days. The climate you play in seems to affect the rosin optimization, and the particular season (even the particular day) in the climate. I played 50 years thinking "rosin is rosin (period)", but there are differences - I've come to realize - even if the differences are only at my placebo level.
tiffanylne Registered User (4/14/01 1:46:30 pm) Reply	Re: ugh...MANY questions well he wants me to have fine tuners but not built in ones...he wants me to add them on he mentioned something about adding more mass also, i believe. if more mass is so important then why do they make those super light tailpieces...that's what i'm using at the moment...a whittner ultralight composite one i got it because it looked less breakable then my last one. i don't think i can afford the harmonie, though. so what sounds the best: boxwood, ebony, or metal? tiffany
TerryM Registered User (4/14/01 2:13:51 pm) Reply	Re: ugh...MANY questions Thanks Andy for drawing my attention to the original post again. I did read it too quickly. I thought the teacher wanted a tailpiece with the tuners built in, not add-ons. Tiffany, perhaps your teacher is trying to save some money for you but wants you to have fine tuners to make the cello easier to tune. They are almost a necessity with steel strings, as steel strings are just too sensitive to over-tuning and difficult to adjust with pegs, especially if the pegs have any tendency to slip. It is also possible that your cello is too bright or loud and your teacher may feel that adding tuners may ajust this somewhat. As far as any differences between ebony, boxwood, rosewood and pernambuco, I would think that they would be largely in appearance only. I have a friend who replace a metal Wittner with an Akusticus and there was an immediate improvement in sound. In my experience, as far as the mass of the tailpiece is concerned, adding too much mass with add- on tuners dampens the sound in a very negative way. I had this arrangement and then went to the plastic Akusticus with built-in tuners, and then to the Harmonie. Andy, you are right, the Harmonie is expensive, but the basic,ebony French model is $135US at Johnson Strings, whereas the Hill model in ebony is $185US. I bought the basic French model in Toronto for about US$80 (CAN$125). It is still an expensive tailpiece, but certainly more affordable than the prices at Johnson Strings. They seem to have an exclusive distributorship in the US...not a good thing for cellists, thats for sure. Terry
Steve Drake Registered User (4/15/01 9:16:35 pm) Reply	Re: ugh...MANY questions Andrew - where can you get the tailpieces you mentioned for 18.50? Just kidding - I know you were exaggerating. My MP3's My Cello Homepage
elgee Registered User (4/17/01 3:43:15 am) Reply	The cheapest place to buy strings In my opinion, the Concordmusic is the cheapest place to buy strings. Beside it, you may also contact Ellen at cellos2go, she is very kind and will send you what you want to try before you pay. She will never mind you to send her back if the strings don't work. Elgee
Andrew Victor Registered User (4/18/01 9:59:57 am) Reply	Where? Check out SHAR, SouthWest Strings, Concord, Quinn, etc. Finally, if you are going to buy enough stuff, ordering Ferwerda stuff directly from Australia can save you a bundle - I think they charge about $12 for a composite tailpiece. But shipping a package is probably about $25, so if you ordered a few tailpiecs and a few endpins - you would halve US prices. No, I really was not kidding - I looked up prices and did find some in that ($18.50) range. I have found little difference between the Wittner metal and the Ferwerda composite tailpieces. Both have been very effective in improving tone and responsiveness. And along those lines, I am very perturbed by a teacher trying to get a student to actually ADD ON HEAVY STEEL FINE TUNERS. It is conceivable that a particular cello might actually benefit from the mass (although I've not experienced this) and it is also possible that a particular cello might not be too negatively impacted by it. But I, for one, would be interested in someone trying to convince me - it would certainly add to my experience. Andy
raymcc85 Registered User (4/18/01 3:06:09 pm) Reply	Re: The cheapest place to buy strings I'll second concord. They had very fast service and (if I remember correctly) only charged $1.50 shipping for string orders. -r
Christopher Chan Registered User (4/18/01 4:12:20 pm) Reply	Re: The cheapest place to buy strings Concord is really great, one time about 3 years ago i needed strings in a hurry, it was before or during a weekend, i forget what happened exactly, next shipping wasn't possible, but to make a long story short they dropped it off in my mailbox at home the same day! This is a rare case, b/c concord is loacted in Maywood and it's only like 5 min from my house, but it's still incredible that they would go out of the way and do that for me. They didn't say they were going to, and only charged me the $1.50. Unfortunately is isn't too cost effective for me to buy strings there b/c i get charged tax. Quinn violins and Wilder Davis are very cheap too, with free shipping for string orders over a certain $ amount, no sales tax for out of staters. Edited by: Christopher Chan at: 4/18/01 4:12:20 pm
lblake Registered User (4/18/01 11:09:38 pm) Reply	Re: ugh...MANY questions everyone here has mentioned all the lower-priced string places I know of. The prices only vary by a buck or two, usually, between these places. I tend to shop based on service, as a result. There are a few stores I'm very happy with - so it might depend on what I'm buying, specifically, and who has what i want. Many of the mail-order places drop the shipping charges over a certain amount, too. (I think it's usually around $30 where they drop the charge, assuming a strings-only order.) I'm with Andy - ask your teacher WHY he wants you to add mass in your tailpiece. From everything I've ever heard, it's unheard-of. (conceivable, as Andy suggests - but still awfully strange, and I'd be curious to hear why, too!) And, just to show how much strings change on different cellos: Helicores are quite responsive on my lower two. There are a few strings with better response, but Helicores are by no means bad at all, on my cello. They have a very very smooth sound, though. (I usually prefer a sound that is a bit more rich.) The rope core has an especially nice feel, I think. And, on the other hand, spirocore silvers are absolutely un-playable on my cello. Not only poor response, but actually NO response. Belcanto golds are the fastest lower strings I've tried to date, and they are quite rich, too. And, a little brighter than many other strings. I'm just trying some Pirastro Permanent Soloists, and they also have superb response, but a much much more mellow sound than Belcanto Golds. More complex and rich than Helicores, though. So, you see - it really really really can vary dramatically. Experimenting is good. Trade with friends. Cellos2go, I think, may have a variety of strings available to try, too. Ellen is very very helpful. Rosin: Some feel more refined than others. Sometimes I need sticky - when I do, I will add a swipe of Jade. I most often prefer Motrya Gold, and also Kolstein... and in humid weather, Bernardel. I am of the opinion that you shouldn't over-rosin, too. My teacher and I have an on-going disagreement on that one.
JanJan2 Registered User (4/19/01 7:27:23 am) Reply	I had a similar expreience with Johnsons. . . I forget the exact circumstances, but my last A string broke late one Saturday afternoon, and I was playing the next day in church (or something like that). Since I live about an hour away from them, I wasn't going to make it there before they closed, and there were no local shops I could turn to. So I called them and explained my dilemma, and they left my string in an envelope, taped to the outside of their door. And they did this on an honor basis as I was paying by check. Granted it was only a $20 string (and I'd already bought a couple of instruments there), but it really impressed me how they really cared whether I'd be able to play the next day or not. Janet